doubleB Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 The issues in that part of the world are thousands of years old, they will never be resolved, and will never go away. We in the west will never comprehend the magnitude and depth of passion both sides feel.As someone who has an opinion on most everything, I look at that mess and shake my head. Not only can I not begin to sort thru the information, but I find the depth of passion to be plain scary. I feel for everyone on both sides, to be born into a world where hate and fear are inherited from the pervious generation means this cycle wil continue for a thousand more years. It is foolish to think that any state could enforce policy to break this cycle.All I have to say is "leave that shit in the middle east". I know we as Canadians have the right to gather and protest but the passion levels demonstated on the hill recently are scary. Don't bring your hate to my country.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 well bb, who knew you were so eloquent - all the while saying such politically incorrect things. i have to say that im a little fearful myself and too lazy to study the situation enough to form a reasonable opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleB Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 I'm not as ignorant and narrow minded as some would have you believe....check out the time on my last post.... coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybone Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 I hate to sound like an Americain news commentator from CNN but that is exactly what Sept.11 was all about. Brining the fear and insecurity into your country (well, actually the U.S., but hell, like it or lump it we are tied in to Uncle Sam) The mid-east lives with fear of death and terrorism and religous intolerance every day and Sept 11 just gave us a taste of what it might be like. Of course it could just be a right wing government plot to test out some new weapons in Afghanistan (those Bush boys just love a good war, don't they...sure does boost the ratings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 i edited my post, i hope that didn't mess you up -- i don't see the time coincidence, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asparagus Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 I had an interesting conversation with a Jewish co-worker from Hundary a while ago and he had some very interesting things to say. He moved to Isreal thinking it was his homeland, a Jewish state. Nice idea, in my opinion. Everyone likes to have a 'home'. He got a good job at some medical facility and proceeded to fit right in. Within six months he had had enough. He told me of how the, to borrow words from the likes of Karl Marx, bourgois Isrealis (owners, businessmen, doctors, etc.), would not even talk to the proletariat Palestinian (workers, labourers, janitors, etc.). He told me of how the janitors in his workplace would press themselves up against the wall in an effort not to be noticed. He also told me of how he once spoke to a Palestinian janitor while walking through the hallway with several Isreali co-workers. He said 'Hello' and everyone present instantly hushed, both Isrealis and Palestinian. It seemed to him that you just don't speak to each other. Not Isrealis speaking to Palestinians or vice versa, both, it simply didn't happen. He told me of how he felt obligated to leave, and of how he felt it is not so much a Jewish versus Moslem conflict, but rather, two groups of people fighting over land. He made it clear to me that he felt these two groups of people used there religion to further their cause by finding common ground with other countries and governments and to somehow justify the atrocities that they each have committed on each other. I myself have tried to understand a bit more of the conflict than I used to. I would tend to agree with him in his conclusions, ofcourse he lived it, I read it. I'm not going to say anymore. I'll start to lose my friends. Thought people might benefit from a little story from someone who had been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieDon'tSurf Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 Any country on the face of this planet has some level of political dissent within its borders. The difference is what level the recalcitrants are willing to take their unrest to. Will it take the form of political vs. political methods, will it escalate to militaristic dissent, will it be an underground propaganda campaign? Fanaticism abounds and any 'protest' is subject to being infected by it. Fanaticism is the worst form of protest as it generally loses touch with the true issues and reality of what is at stake and, worse yet, it is generally practised by only a select few. Not every Palestinian is a suicide-bomber, not every Afghan/Muslim is a member of Al Queda, not every Francophone is with the FLQ. The Middle East is the problem that it is because of the plain and simple fact that Western views have been imposed on many aspects of life there. Israel is, really, a unilaterally created country. The US/UN dumps weapons and cardboard leaders wherever it can in hopes that they can manufature islands of Western Culture in a sea of multi-culturalism. Generally, however, I think that people shoot, kill, maim and torture one another for the same reason, no matter who or where they are: They are SCREWED UP! We all have issues, its just a matter of how we want to deal with them...Blah, Blah, Blah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieDon'tSurf Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 Time coincidence...4:20 vs 4/20... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 ah, thankyou. so it had absolutely nothing to do with me - just the way i like it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieDon'tSurf Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 yer welcome, h...but don't take my word for it... it may have had everything to do with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treyter Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 hey AD-sorry bud if i came off a bit aggro..i'm not. might've been pinched for a tenth of a sec about the barber thing but it passed trust me. me asking u to talk face to face is me saying that i really don't like to discuss this type of thing infront of 250 people...everyone has different political views, and it's really a complicated thing to get into with people u don't really know. i mean some people here really know me, but most i haven't had the pleasure of sitting down and having a real converstation with u know? as far as afganistan goes i understand your point of view (albeit a bit conspiracy theory like)...could very well be like that though u never know. i think the states made a lot of bad decisions in the past, supported the wrong people etc. but i believe that they have the same ideals as us..the same fundamental beliefs, so it's ok to trust in them a bit...not too much but a bit. point is though, realistically what can we do about anything here in canada? not too much. i think the US are getting some of these terrorist groups, and that's fine by me, and taking out the Taliban was alright in my mind as well...in 10 years the people left alive will be grateful i think (hope). the women at least right? still it's hard to say what's right and wrong on this one (especially procedure wise)...well said though jaybone...like it or not, just because we live here in Canada and live relatively peacefully, this shit is actually going on and it should and does affect everyone. In some ways Sept. 11th might have been the wakeup call to all humans (especially the west) that we need to join forces and face the problems of the world. or whatever.AD have fun is Spain man! what are you doing there anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 Thanks, Treyter. I will indeed have fun in Spain. What am I doing there? The exact opposite of what I'd be doing here. Lounging on the beach all day, hitting all the best museums in the world, finding the best paella, checking out Basques (speaking of conflict...) talking to Monkees in Gibraltar, possibly going to Morocco... you know, the usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treyter Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 Gad that sounds nice AD! wish i could step into your shoes for a while! mmmm....morroccan hash and monkeys bringing me drinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 AD- Stay away from those Moroccan carpet dealers !Those Spanish party all night ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 Just to kind of put another spin on things the source of Velvet post is interesting. Velvets lawyer friend in Vancouver is also a friend of mine, Jewish and very pro-Israeli and a very good guy but never the less he is very pro-Israel (In the past during Palestinian-Israeli conflicts he has circled a petition demanding that UN peacekeepers be not allowed into Palestinian refugee camps - why?, I found it strange and sad).Now im not saying this didnt happen, it did, on private property where neither Israeli or Palestinian protesters will ever be allowed (and trust me if you went busting through the Rideau Center with a raised Palestinian flag those assholess would come down unfuckingbelievably hard on you), what im saying is you've got watch the source and keep a level head. And near as I can tell from the post the proteters didnt lower their flag until security forced it away from them (I personnally have no problem walking around anywhere with any flag). Theres no law saying mall security has to be polite (they never are) you just have to comply while you are on their property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted April 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 For the record, the only problem I had with any of this was how the security guards treated the people. I'm way with all your points, Oh Sloth That Lives Beneath Me (call me around 8 for beers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 Agreed, those guys are bastards. They tried to arrest me once cuz I fit the description of some other regular trouble maker (that had been banned - all us hippies look the same to them). The only real problem was I had alot of not so legal things on my body at the time and had to do some fast talking before they frisked and cuffed me.Ill call you at 8 Velvet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted April 26, 2002 Report Share Posted April 26, 2002 odd, when i was little radco was a security guard there and he was one of our best friends - he'd have a lot more illegal stuff on him... we've run around the bowels of that building a 100 times - oh well, how times have changed...damn its 9 now, too late for beers - hey did you know we just trapped a giant beaver and set it free? i think i'll go post that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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