State of our Scene- opinions??

[Ms.Huxtable]

HAhahaha. I love it! PROM NIGHT!

[bradm]

Oh, man that would be cool: Prom Night Theme! Rented tuxedos, prom dresses, rental limo rides (with bars in the cars), prom king & queen, "Congratulations Class of Whatever" banner...

The only problem is that, if it gets any media attention at all, it'll look like a big joke. I'm not sure it's the case that the media has misconceptions about the scene/music: I don't think they have any idea this is going on.

What we need to do is show them that this fun music is happening, people are enjoying it, and the bands & bars are making money at it.

I know they're not the most friendly/helpful publication around, but a weekly fun-music-friendly column in the XPress would help a lot.

If we want to get more people into this music (these musics), we either need to draw them into it (e.g., by pairing up "our" acts with "their" acts), or by taking out music to their turf: In my experience, someone goes to a venue for one of two reasons: to see a particular act, regardless of where it is, or because the venue is a regular haunt, regardless of who's there.

To get at the former group, we need to pair up the bands they don't know with the bands they do know. To get at the latter group, we need to get the bands into venues they haven't been playing (much) so far.

Aloha,

Brad

[Ms.Huxtable]

I can second that BradM. When we played Maxwell's on Elgin Street (Cougar bar) we had a rather large crowd of people who never heard of Phish and couldn't name a jazz musician if their life depended on it. Did they enjoy it? Damn right they did! Did the bar make money? Well they asked us to play again as soon as we could.

Bring the music to them. Makes sense to me.

[Giggles]

Hi pholks...

Here's a few things I wanted to say as one of these musicians in one of these "jambands"...

1) I believe the scene is growing (band wise), and this is good. It allows for the build up of a fan base (no matter how minimal) in a perticular area and therefore, when one of us bands do travel to that city, we HOPE the word has gotten to those few fans and at least they will show up...It also allows interesting treats like seemless sets and whatnot to take place...BIG treat for the fans IMO.

It IS difficult to get around for a band when the cash just isn't really being made..be thankful all, that nero/GTB/JSB and others are doing well and can come see you guys in far off provinces...these guys (as we all are) are doing it for the love of you people and their love for the music.

III) It has been said before: Request your favourite bands music on colledge radio...if they don't have a disc, request a song by another band that does...

fourth) I enjoy the mass media idea BUT, the mass media also likes to project the image of our scene as THE drug mecca in the music world...THIS REALLY PISSES ME OFF because, (ok, some of us do enjoy partaking in the consumption of drugs) more so than ANY musical genre lovers, WE are lovers of music...nearly ALL music. We love rock, jazz, folk, elctronica, classical...noise. We love music first and foremost and I find no matter what, the mass media likes to always add in that were (some of us) drug users and thats why were attracted to the music we love.

Finally) Please give us (the bands) a bit of time. We hear you east coasters and west coasters calling for us to come to your neck of the woods and were trying...Untill we do see you, support those bands you can see often...I know as a former Ottawaian, I've seen nero 40, 50 maybe even 60 times and enjoyed every second of it...and I'm pretty sure they enjoyed seeing me there too.

And lastly) To the bands, try the seemless set shit. Invite fellow bands to your neck of the woods and rip shit for those great fans that want to enjoy it. Help each other out whenever you can...It's not a competition for me, I'm just trying to present music to people who I hope will enjoy it...

May the blessings be,

Giggles

[Comfort Zone]

I will start to promote the hell out of the cozone on print, radio, word of mouth, postering and flyering. It just all costs money that we don't have, and even w/it it's hard to bring people to a show in Toronto, a market that is just completely ass backwards in the music scene. I'll just keep on truckin'.

[CyberHippie]

I think they scene is way bigger than it ever has been. We've been getting way more shows than ever, we never could have had phil/moe/soulive playing at molson amp a few years ago. BNB when they were playing were packing the horseshoe and lee's palace. I think we've made amazing strides in the last two years.

That being said... I think poor attendance at shows this summer can be due to multiple things. First, we have had so much great music this summer, you have to pick your battles, I know I certainly can't afford to make it to everything. Second, it's summer! In the days of patios, sometimes it's a lot easier to stay sitting/drinking on a patio, then to head down to the dank zone. I love the great weather and try to get out as much as I can! I generally try to make it down to the zone on Wednesday's, but weekends are usually a write off for me because I generally get the hell outta Toronto, and head north.

I believe once the fall rolls around people will be ready to start hanging out inside again. Plus the Fatties will be around, and everyone loves those cats!

My $0.02

[CharlieDon'tSurf]

okay...consider this,

for a guy like me, with work-only access to the internet at present, what does one do to promote the scene? who recruits for promos, etc...

basically, how does one volunteer to do some leg-work, etc...

[ike]

First of all I think the scene is alive and well, although things are slow right now I'm sure things will pick up in the fall when all the kids are back at school. Just think back to 10 years ago, there really wasn't much of a canadian 'jamband' (sorry for using that term, but I know you all know what I mean) scene at all.

Secondly, expanding on CautionClown's comments, there are definitely a lot more of these 'jambands' around these days so maybe there just aren't enough fans to go around? A little bit of market saturation going on?

As far as ideas to help the scene I like the idea of pairing up bands to get more people out to local gigs. Makes sense right? Two bands are better than one, and hopefully can attract more attention than one band could alone. I think the better known acts could adopt a band similar to what velvet mentioned and help out us lesser known acts. I know our band would like to break into the Ottawa and Eastern Canadian scene, but being from southern Ontario it's nearly impossible to do without a little help from the bigger acts.

And if any of those acts are reading this please contact me to join forces!

ian@dieseldog.ca

www.dieseldog.ca

[SolarGarlic]

quote:

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Originally posted by bradm:

If we want to get more people into this music (these musics), we either need to draw them into it (e.g., by pairing up "our" acts with "their" acts), or by taking out music to their turf: Aloha,

Brad

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bring the acts to their turf eh? UPRISING! its all about mehem and chaos (is it? i think so..). Ya'll should go rooftop on their asses:) set up a stage down there and play to all the passer by folk. get aressted, get publicity in all the local rags and go from there. Each band can plan a surprise attack of their own. then, after all the bands get out of jail, they can start booking gigs and people will be like "eh! aren't them those fellers that got tossed in the hole for jammin?? #@@#%$ ?? Must be a great jug band er sumpin, lets get the chillen and see em' !!". the house will be packed and the revolution will have begun. eventually we will even rule on the "Hill" .

Good luck.

Oh, i like the other ideas ive read too:) Prom would be a KILLER theme, even if it was for your own personal enjoyment.

[Esau]

I'd just like to say that after 15 or so yrs of being into what most describe as jambands.I think that the scene is on the rise,mind you it does have its slow times,but the quality,number of bands,all round scene has done nothing but improve.I rember having to drive hrs to Montreal or worse the U.S to catch alot of good jam bands,now I can just about catch a great band w/out having to book a hotel just for a good night of music(which was always worth it).But in my trade I'm not always workin',which has great touring advantages,but on the other had it can hurt the wallet at times when the work is not coming up in my union hall.I don't know maybe I'm just old or tired right now,but I think the scene is doin good,and when the summer closes to an end the bars will be full again.Altough we could sure use more big festivals in Canada,just so us people who can,t legally croos U.S borders can get to see some of these guys.And yes I am aware that there is a number of festivals across Canada. Well hers to the music people becuse aren't we suppose enjoy it well we got it?

Keep smilin' See ya all at the Cats tonight,I'll be the guy w/ the red eyes and tattoos.Say high.

[secondtube]

tough to miss ya big man!

so ya heard about doug eh Greg? I hope everything i've heard is false.

[CharlieDon'tSurf]

here's my take on the outside view of the jamband scene....

up until a year or so ago, i had never even heard the term 'jamband'...i had known of the Dead and was introduced to Phish by dogatthestation, but never really took the bull by the horns and with it - so, as far as i was concerned, phish and the dead were tha jamband scene, both of which interested me, but never really pulled me in.

then, after a long hiatus, came a shot a BNB...i was very impressed, but too new to it all to really appreciate it

then there was nero...and i thought "what the f#@k! this is way more than i ever imagined!!"..stupified to say the least

a couple of more shows, including drums n' tuba & downtime (yum yum)

the scene is as much the music as it is the people who partake of the tunes...i'm blown away by both aspects. i may have never wandered into these strange and wonderful vistas and i'm damn glad i did...

labels don't ever do anything justice and one label isn't gonna be much better than the other... the trick is, methinks, luring us unelightened ones into a show or two - i think anyone that truly appreciates good music, or groovin' at the very least, can't help but get into it all... word of mouth is the pearl of every movement

[MarcO]

quote:

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Originally posted by secondtube:

so ya heard about doug eh Greg? I hope everything i've heard is false.

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What about Doug, Steve?

[mark tonin]

Wow ... I arrive home from the Hillside Festival, a wonderful music festival featuring a whole range of musical styles, to find one of the most interesting threads that I have ever read on this board.

I really don't know where to begin, but here are some thoughts.

First of all, I thank the bands that are sleeping on floors and eating Kraft dinner for making the sacrifices and doing what it takes to bring great live music to us. Anyone who does some basic math will realize that there is not much money in this scene. Sure there are exceptions, some great festivals that draw lots of people, some clubs that draw people and reinvest the money into making the live music experience even better ... but on the whole the Canadian "jam" community as it currently stands is relatively small. And this means that bands don't make much money, clubs don't make much money, promoters don't make much money, ......

Having said the above, let's remember that it is hard to make a living as a musician in Canada no matter what style of music that you play.

I am excited by the increase in the number of bands that are currently a part of this scene. Having said that, when you take a relatively small group of music lovers, and increase the number of choices that they have, it fragments the market even more. This summer has been filled with a huge number of great music shows, from larger festivals to smaller bar gigs. There just aren't enough people in this scene at the moment to attend all of the wonderful shows that are happening. For example, on July 20 there were 3 events going on that sounded fantastic ... Jukejoint & Tala at the Comfort Zone, Jomomma cd release in Brantford, and 3 bands from the West (TFOS, SNA and FF I think) at the Casbah in Hamilton. On Aug. 10/11 there is Lose Yer Shoes, the Can Am Jam, and Bob's bash. On Sept. 21 there is Fat Cats/Caution Jam and Drums & Tuba in Toronto. Lots of great choices, perhaps too many on a regular basis given the size of the scene as it currently stands.

So, from my perspective, we've got to do what it takes to make the scene grow. And this means reaching out to new fans using the methods discussed throughout this thread. As for the "jamband" label, I really don't know what to do about this label. I like the terms grassroots, groove, etc. etc. etc., but lets face it, a label doesn't do justice to the range of music played by the bands we enjoy. Having said that, we need some sort of label or short catchy phrase to make it easy to communicate (e.g. for a web site name, magazine name, etc.) I like the idea of using the jamband label when communicating with existing fans, but describing the music in a different way when trying to get new people out to shows.

I am also in favour of trying to have fewer, bigger events, rather than lots and lots of small events. From my perspective, I'd rather see 300 people out at one show instead of 150 people out each of 2 shows, or 75 people out at each of 4 shows, or ... so I am in favour of pairing up bands, and making the shows feel more like events. We cannot expect the majority of people to go out to shows every night or almost every night ... most people don't have the time or the money to do so. I also think that anyone coming out to a show for the first time would be much more impressed if it was an "event" rather that poorly attended bar show.

Well, I've reread what I've written so far and I don't think I've really added much to the thread, so I'll end by saying "Do what you can to support groovy grassroots Canadian jam music!!!"

Peace, Mark

[secondtube]

well marc, i think doug and derek got into a quiff, and with low attendance lately, i'm not sure how much longer things are gonna last.

BUT i have not heard anything official, just rumors.

[CautionClown]

Get rid of the JAMBAND label?

Look at the name of this website!

One of the reasons that most of us are here is because of THAT label. We own it! It represents the energy and dedication to LIVE music.

Rather that getting rid of it, I think we should embrace it. we should work at creating a better understanding of what the term means. We might be better off educating the mainstream rather than falling to our knees and feeding off of the "media's perpective" of what we enjoy.

Of course it's Rock and Roll, or is it just rock, or is it heavy rock, or is it roots music, or is it jazz?

There is little common ground between Nero and Caution Jam other than the fact that we play to very similar audiences, we're supportive of each other projects (including having a couple of beers together when we cross each other on the road).

Without the "jamband" label, we'd be shoved into some other little catagorie and sharing would be even more difficult. With the jamband label we become friends.

I'm proud to be part of the Jamband scene.

Like Neil Young said:

"LIVE MUSIC IS BETTER" bumperstickers shoud be issued!

[scottieking]

WOW! You go to the beach for a couple o' days and look what pops up!

I really have only one point to add to the hundreds of awesome points already stated but I'll try. This community ( and don't kid yourselves people, we are a more akin to a community than many things going in this world right now) is strong. There are 400 people here alone who have the opportunity to talk here alone. Peanuts ya say. Read on...

Now I have a fairly diverse group of friends, but if there is one thing they know is Scottie loves his music. They know I used to follow this band Phish around, I disappear for shows all the time, I cry on Aug 9, and I'll dance to anything with a beat. But it has been my responsiblity in the last few years to get the music out there. Don't just tell a friend you're into Phish, play them a live track. Throw SCI on at a party and see what happens. Do what you can to make them understand WHY you love it so. Remember, most 'heads started off by listening to another band first.

As far as the acts go, PLEASE......DON'T.......GIVE........UP! Let's face it, we will never have the scene our American cousins have. Demographics dictate that our population logically can't sustain that many people with good taste in music. But look at us now, we've got a scene. I'm staring at the Evolve line-up right now. It's just about not being lazy or snobby or apathetic. Support them all, support them often. I think the best idea suggested here is the university system. Get out of the bars and onto the campus.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. I suppose there's no better place or time in the world then right now to tell you , the bands both past and present, and the kind pholks all over how much I love this scene and how much it's brought to me......I'm a little veclempt.....talk amongst yourselves......here's a topic......Jon Fishman, neither a fish nor a man...discuss

[show---whore]

i also like usiong the word CANJAM so people know thats it canadian

[shainhouse]

I had no idea a little thought I had in my head a few days ago would turn into this.

It seems everyone wants to contribute to the scene and their is only one way to do it. SUPPORT THE BANDS. SUPPORT THE CLUBS AND SUPPORT THE PROMOTERS. Money is a big issue in the scene because their just isn't enough of it to go around and most people making a living [including myself] in the scene aren't doing it to get rich.

The Cozone has been forced to close down a few times in the past few years because no one is out supporting the shows and paying the $5 cover charge to keep the scene alive. We're trying again to line up tons of great shows this fall and along with MASSIVE renovations ongoing in the club, hopefully something will trigger the midset of people just into good music.

I'm just babbling. Thanks for contributing to this thread and the scene. The fact that's its on the front page amazes me! peace-

[bradm]

I think this qualifies as "taking the music to their turf", but I'm not sure...according to this article*, Raggamuffin will be playing the Barley Mow in Kanata this Friday, and a Jamaica Festival in Merrickville next week.

I've been to the Kanata Barley, and I can't even figure out where they'd fit a band in, let alone a largish reggae band with (presumably) room for dancing. I work across the street from it, and would consider going if it didn't mean staying in Kanata until late into the night and/or early into the morning.

If I lived in Merrickville, I think I'd dig a Jamaica festival. I've never been to Merrickville, but I can imagine people in a small town initially wondering just what was going on, with the colours, the smells, the sounds, and then getting into it and enjoying it all, spectacle though it may be.

Aloha,

Brad

* The article's a good read, talking about how Bingie Barker's daughter was killed one year ago this week, and how Saturday at Babylon will be a tribute concert (w/ Raggamuffin).

[gentlemonkey]

great stuff..

I think that the scene is constantly growing and getting more interesting in Canada. Evolve and CTMFs are a testiment to that with growing numbers as well as improved facilities/sound/activities.. things are always changing, bands breakup. people move away, bars change format.. but i definitley feel that things are really improving, and more people are taking the time to go and see new bands, and support their old faves. great sites are popping up (this one, jamhub.ca..) spreading the word in different formats.. and individuals are taking the time (and money in some cases) to really spread it around.. (thx nw!)

Although i love the entire country, The East Coast scene is truly the bomb. kids will go see a show 7 nights a week if they can. They have supported their bands hard, and they have become world class acts in the process. not only that, but the community is active on line speading the word, and individually make sure that the scene at shows is a good fun safe one.

getting into the U.S. is a key factor. Once Canadian bands are known down there, things will come together a lot more- and i know that all the bands you'd expect to be, are working on that.

all that being said, this is summer time.. no matter where you go, jam show or hiphop show, turnouts are weak. it's sunny out!! it's warm.. I think we'll see the scene grow exponentially the start of this school year.

[kiboshtube]

Being a musician, one of the biggest problems I see is that all the "jamband" music is starting to sound the same, or very similar to each other and to bands such as Phish, the dead, mmw, disco biscuits, etc. I think that it is getting pretty boring to hear "swirly guitar effect-driven-semi-funky-jingly-jangly-go-nowhere jams." Someone has got to do something original fast or else we'll loose more people.

Ever since Phish has been on break, I have been able to discover so many more types of music, and i've found a lot of stuff that I now like better than Phish for many reasons. I am not really a big fan of "jamband" - type stuff anymore...it has just lost it's flare for me and become so old.

I think that generally people are just getting bored of the same-old. I love the "scene" surrounding the music at shows etc, but the music itself is definitely waning.

[arcane]

quote:

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Originally posted by bradm:

Oh, man that would be cool: Prom Night Theme! Rented tuxedos, prom dresses, rental limo rides (with bars in the cars), prom king & queen, "Congratulations Class of Whatever" banner...

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This isn't original, but try a "Ties and Tails" theme ...

Rules:

1) You must have a tie and a tail to get in the door.

2) Definition of "tie" and "tail" is up to you.

3) For those that don't bring ties or tails, they will handed out at the door. (Go, contruction paper!)

[CharlieDon'tSurf]

...what about those with some thai tail?

not that there's anything wrong with that...

[dancingfool]

Jambands are "fun music"? Well, yes. And The Decadent cookies are, for many, "good food" (as in tastes good). You'll see how vague both are.

Live music to me must be different than recorded music. Both have their strengths and possibilities. Even live albums tend more towards the latter than the former, though should capture a reasonable amount of the feel to qualify as such (proper mix of soundboard and audience mics).

What do I qualify as "fun live music"? Stuff all over the board: Nero, Drums and Tuba, The Orchid Highway, Enter the Haggis, Shooglenifty, Susie Arioli Swing Band, Pat Metheny, drum circles, unnamed arabic bands putting us to shame as to audiences dancing like maniacs, Tory Cassis, Moxy Fruvous, and many more. And I don't even count myself as eclectic.

Some of those bands jam, aka improvise on specific themes with varying degrees of structure; others stick to a clear piece but can vary the orchestration, delivery or approach from time to time.

Then again, I've been to jams where the tunes are set, and it's the mix of tunes which varies and gives flavour to each week's outings (and different people each week bringing different tunes others don't know).

kibosh has a point, and I'd compare it (briefly and barely) with the celtic scene: for most, a lot of the bands sound interchangeable, and for all intents, they are. Only a few manage to create something new out of something (very) old, usually by combining and retaining the individuality of each member in a group and pairing it off with other talented musicians, as opposed to "blending" it together in one smooshed glob. Getting six musicians on stage, as Addison Groove Project did, and being able to feel the different styles and approaches of each one is no easy feat, and gets more difficult as the sound system gets more complicated. As Ms Hux said, the keyboardist was barely audible most of the time, bringing the feel down a few notches. Nero, with three musicians, makes it easier to balance the sounds. I think.

I seem to be rambling again without much of a point... but, I'm still a bit of an outsider; bradM did play some phish and dead for me several times, without it 'hooking' me. We went to see Drums and Tuba for the first time, and I was let loose, but it was nothing new for me to do, just a new style, sort of. He's certainly tried to get me to see Nero tons of times before, so he can't be faulted for how long it took me to get here. ANYway, I haven't had as full an exposure as most others in this forum, and I can't afford the huge festivals, and am on dial-up so downloading tons of MP3s is kinda difficult, so I'll remain a bit on the outside of the scene - and the inside of the dance floor - for now...