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State of our Scene- opinions??


shainhouse

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Not actually trying to get the last word here more like dreading chiming in. To be frank I've found the scene to be rather dead or dying as of late (with some major exceptions). The whole Burt breakup really hit me hard to the point that I didn't even go to their last show in Guelph. Beyond that I think the lack of media acceptance, general public acceptance and overall awareness is depressing to the point of making you actually question whether their not right in some way. Let's be honest very few people listen to our music live or recorded without drugs or at least alcohol. Or at least alot of what makes this music important to us is some of the experiences we've had doing drugs at concerts. As with rave culture drug culture overlaps with our culture, which is not to say they are defined by drugs but that drugs occur. Now drugs only largely appeal to people in their early to late twenties at which point the sway of career or family or whatever takes hold or is supposed to isn't it? At the same time a heads a head and they likely always will be. That's part of the reason I started a site called Northern Heads because I wanted to identify with that culture not the idiom if you like. I stopped updating it when I could no longer sincerely address the audience due to various frustrations with the scene if you like. That sentiment seems to be shifting though.

Anyways their's alot of atrophy in the college markets as understandably people move on from University. People like Craig Mercer from Jimmy Swift know this well and hit those markets over and over again to keep their name present. Things like their getting the ECMA or a deal with Keith's whatever that really reaffirms my faith in this season. As does what will definitely be Grand Theft Bus' phenomenal album just finished last Sunday. What else, oh of course Nero is just sicker than dirt. I don't think it has been said enough how absolutely sick their post-Phil show was. Leagues beyond anything they've been doing lately at least energy wise. Plus MC Dave was just kicking up a storm on the microphone a welcome break from his 'Hi we're Nero' crowd hyper.

Seeing the Fat Cats lately really reaffirmed my faith in this scene as well. I would put Nero and them pretty damn close to my top two bands in the country and I'm essentially an East Coaster so that's saying alot. Would love to see more connection between the West and the East. Everyone should go out and support Guerilla Funk Monster on their way through from Calgary. Or catch any sick show Upstream puts on in Vancouver.

That's about it really. There's also something to be said for the lack of ethnic and demographic diversity in our scene. Honestly how many persons of colour do you see at shows, and how many people couldn't be described as middle, upper middle or even upper class. Still it's an exciting time for music both looking forward and looking back and the walls are starting to come down. We need a few good ambassadors to the straight world and that'll be a start.

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There is alot of talk in the scene but no one ever does anything. I try so hard and so does many other people to get the word out and help the scene but no one's willing to take the extra step and go see a band you've never heard of. There are HUNDREDS among HUNDREDS of bands out there worth hearing, just check it out w/an open mind.

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I think most of the bands in our scene right now are going to die out (except for the long-time pioneers of the canjam scene - such as the FatCats). They are all pretty much doing the same thing and nothing impresses me anymore. I'm not judging here, this is merely my opinion, but I don't know what the big deal about Burt Neilson breaking up was...I thought they're music was unexciting, noodling, self-promoting, white-boy funk, of which there was already too much. And Nero is much like a guitar showcase of effects. I see so many musicians trying to be like other more popular musicians (who shall remain nameless, but I'm sure you can name a few) that it has become almost a contest to see who can sound like "so-and-so" the most.

Basically I think that the entire scene has been mis-directed, over-influenced, and under-nourished with good, original, well written music...so much so that the fact that the scene has lasted even this long at it's current size is staggering to me. A clique has grown around the scene with a certain snobbiness that makes me cringe.

I wish more people would realize that it's the music that counts and nothing else....and the music has faltered...

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You had me at hello...

Well said my good man. You make me think I've grown soft. You take enough flames over seemingly sensible albeit pigheaded comments and you start to back down. Everything you've said is true Senor Kibosh. At the same time I don't know if it's as bad as you make out. The Burt thing upset me not because everything you've said is untrue but because that era in our lives was over. These bands bookmark our the chapters in our lives. The Nero criticism is unfortunately valid as well... with the proviso that their intention is good and they are truly committed to improvisational freedom. I think it all comes down to right intention really. Take a band like the Slip, who in my opinion have escaped the trajectory of the jamband for jamband's sake, it is completely evident in their performance that they are putting across the right intention- which implies that they have meted out what it is they are trying to do and put across. They have thought it through to the point that they don't need to overthink it.

It's this focus on intentionality that I find most lacking today.

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Well said....is it a coincidence that my favourite band is The Slip? I think not...how interesting. The Slip I consider almost pure jazz, with a modern twist that is original and highly melodic. Lack of obvious melody is something that I think drives people away from jazz. Jukejoint is another one of my favourites and I was blown away by their performance at the May 24 Frontier Town Festival - I thought they were the best band there by far! The common 3 or 4 chord structures and the practice of presenting a catchy melody within the first 30 seconds of a song is what the popular culture is attuned to. Which is another reason why jazz is dismissed as kibosh to alot of people.

You're right, I did back down because I did not want to offend anyone inappropriately. I guess I can say now that I despise BNB and Nero, amongst many other jambands, that insist on pumping out song after song and jam after jam of "same-sounding-who-can-sound-more-like-you-know-who" stuff.

I agree with you on your point about Nero, but their attitude towards improvisational freedom is not enough to constitute a drastic change in direction or justify calling them original...they are merely re-vamping to a higher degree, that which was pioneered by "The Grandfathers" of jam-rock (i.e. The Dead, Phish, and jazz artists before them). Have a listen to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew from late 60's/early 70's and you'll know what I mean - now that is improvisational freedom.

But I think that the fans ultimately drive the direction of this scene as the bands will keep playing what the crowds want to hear. I just think that the people who are really there for the original music are being snuffed by the people who are there merely to be a part of something (or for the drugs and partying). My suggestion to everyone would be to go to a show sober and alone and try to make an honest opinion about how the music made you feel and what you think about it in terms of originality. You may think that I'm over-analyzing, but music is like an analysis and presentation of emotion and should be viewed as seriously as language. After having done that, if you find you still like the music then great, go support that band. If not, then try to ask why you didn;t like it and be honest with yourself.

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I think "despise" is a very strong word...

I am a fan of nero and was a fan of Burt

I am honoured to say that I am a student of the "Heart-Source" free jazz music of guitar master and living Buddha: Tisziji Munoz (you have NO IDEA what free jazz can posess untill your hear Tisziji, Franklin Kiermyer, Don Pate, John Lockwood and my mentor: Bob Moses play on an album like: Alpha Nebula: The Prophecies...it is unlike anything you can imagine!!! Check out www.tisziji.com for mind expansion!!!

Anyways, being into this extreme form of jazz, I am still honoured to say that I am a fan of nero and some other solid canjambands. There are some bands I don't perticularly enjoy as well, but I think a word like: despise really isn't necessary...but hey, were all just giving our own $0.02 here right?!? there's mine...

May the blessings be,

Giggles "Gawpo" [big Grin][big Grin][big Grin]

- When checking out Tisziji, listen to the music first and then read a bit about the master's amazing life...he truely is a beautiful man and a MONSTER on guitar...my favourite!!!

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I think you guys are missing the point about the mainstream media, and helping the scene get a leg up. As a reporter I can tell you how print works... basically the people who read the paper every day are the people who have subscriptions, thus the content is justified by what these subscribers want and expect from their local, provincial and national dailies.

How many of you reading this right how have a subscription to your local newspaper? The men and women who have the paper delivered daily to their homes, most of the time, are just trying to get by. ie/put their under-10s to bed early, find out why their prescriptions aren't covered by medicare, and figure out who the hell broke into Jim's local gas station the other night and stole his truck.

If you want coverage, you need to start writing in. A killer band play in your area and it wasn't reviewed in the paper? Start at the beginning... was it in the listings page? If the answer is still no, you need to send a letter to the editor, or two, or ten. Can't find shows in your free community weekly (Eye, Here, Scene, Id, etc..)--- write in. Start a revolution. And demand coverage of the events you want.

Beyond print, TV and Radio are just looking to cover any big event that has captured a community. And it doesn't have to be a review either. Was there a traffic jam? A huge line up? Most days in newsrooms everywhere, news is just that, news. And over half of these newsrooms are still populated by over-50 men who were using pre-Second World War typewriters when they got their first scoop, and wouldn't know something hip if it bit them in the ass. So phone in your tips, write letters, and bug you local entertainment editor. Trust me, he will begin to search out what his community wants to hear about.

And believe me, press packs are deadly. Very deadly. But they ABSOLUTELY require phone calls and follow ups. Lots of them.

Anybody want to tour in New Brunswick, I'm your gal. I can give you names for all of the entertainment editors, radio station contacts, and a list of great bars that love live music.

On another note, I've been a successful Adopt-a-Band parental unit since March 2002, and haven't been let down yet. Get to know the bands that visit your area. All they want is a couch, your internet connection, and a shower. Beyond that, they usually party hard, laugh a lot, and tell VERY FUNNY stories. Oh, and they bring their funny managers, too. Well worth it.

p.

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as someone who promotes in peterborough i have seen first hand the weak crowds that have been coming out this summer bands that would draw 100 plus are drawing maybe a dozen and that sucks however i think that peterborough and lots of other town like it dont have much of a local scene when the university lets out and the kids all split town for greener summer pastures there go your crowds the second september rolls around again shows will be busy again, i think less bands should tour in the summer because they wont be playing to big crowds and will be limting their markets. another thing is that nobody in peterborough will pay five bucks for a band they dont know, if you are from out west you pretty much have to get a local opener because you may be amazing but if noone knows you you are no one will come which is lame but what can you really do.

yeah the label jamband sucks but on posters you have to lable a band so that people know what kind of music they are and right now everyone and there mom is putting funk on these posters and usually there is no funk to be seen. anyway i think the scene is fine, its just people are alsways going to choose sitting on a patio to live music in the summer sad but true

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bands need to stay fresh.

Now this is what is important. SONG WRITING

that is why the fatties are doin' so well. Jomomma is kinda in a turning point, and are taking it professionally. Those are the two bands that will survive. THey are writing new songs that are not just jam launch points.

Other than for MMW, which i'm not really into, i cannot think of another successful jamband that doesn' have lyrics. Truly successful i mean. Yet, and marc will love this, the new deal is getting as close as were gonna get i think.

I've seen nero three or four times now, and because i'm not a HUGE fan, a lot sounds VERY similar to me. Sure ya'll who have seen 50 shows can distinguish their sounds but, well, song writing just does it for me.

Lastly, the gawd-damn drum and bass patterns that have been poppin' up. Burt was taking to it near the end, hell that church show sounded like a rave. The last two nero shows i saw had been similar.

Jukejoint's drummer and Joel from the fatties are so freaking far ahead of any drummers cause they don't rely on repitition. Any retard can sit on a hi-hat all night, just changing the beat and tempo. The drummers should sit down and listen to Keith Moon, for about 24 hours.

Or even the boys', the ultimate, the rythm devils.

well enuff ramblin' for now

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quote:

Originally posted by kiboshtube:

You're right, I did back down because I did not want to offend anyone inappropriately. I guess I can say now that I despise BNB and Nero, amongst many other jambands, that insist on pumping out song after song and jam after jam of "same-sounding-who-can-sound-more-like-you-know-who" stuff.


"Same sounding..." Most genres of music sound the same...Isn`t that why there are different genres of music??? Jambands are going to be similar in the same sense that boy bands are similar...You would never see nero opening for NSYNC...

Mind you that would be a SWEEEET show...

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quote:

Originally posted by kung:

the 9 iron goes in my ass right

actually, I think it goes in to the left, with a little counter-clockwise rotation.

here I am, having not been 'influenced' by superfluous amounts of the old codgers and I love every minute of every show i have seen thus far & that isn't often easy to accomplish. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some sort of musical elitist, i just tend to like what i like and sneer mockingly at the rest....

i have plenty of more listening to do, alot more territory to cover, but i have a possible theory here...

having not been previously tainted, is there an 'originality' to the music that I hear (or anyone else recently introduced to the sounds) that someone familiar with the dead, etc.... loses in the inevitable comparisons???

have some been spoiled to the point that, original or not, they'll never be The Dead???

i dunno, just wonderin'...

by the way, i don't dance and now suddenly i do...when appropriate... its not the drugs, or the scene, so its gotta be the fact that i've run into some good tunes??

By the way, what is the longest Skank thread to date? Is this one getting close?

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okay so sue me...i know i'm a bit late on this thread but i've gotta say some things that are dreadfully overdue.

we are amongst the biggest music snobs around although we're the biggest music lovers around. there are a lot of great mainstream bands around and i realize that...although i know as well as anyone here that they're really not as free as they should be. we all resent the media for improperly depicting our music and us as stoned hippies.

what do we do?? try to do it all ourselves and we know that's so hard. we all have things to do and it's hard to find time to write 50 letters to media personalities and call 75 radio stations just to get a few bites.

also, there are a whole shitload of heads around. someone said there aren't a lot of heads?? bullshit. there are a whole whackload of openminded music loving people around we just have to get the word out to them to become involved or at least come out some night to a show. i was in toronto today and saw a plethora of headdy folk that were smiling and enjoying their day. i stopped and talked to about 10 people and told them about frontiertown while waiting for the train to brockville. they all seemed shocked. i think that's really the key. don't just poster for shows if you're a bar. walk around downtown and meet every heady kid and make them feel appreciated and understood. that'd be a great job. i'd do that for minimum wage.

obviously, being intelligent people, we all understand that the mass media has to be an integral part of our scene's success. saturation will bring out the lot trash and misunderstanding will bring out bad press.

we've got to start writing and volunteering at campus radio stations.

we've got to start realizing what could be.

i was in HMV and saw galactic in the dance section. that's another problem. where can you get a jamband's album?? what section can you find it in? you have to search for 3 hours in stores to find what you're looking for.

okay so a few of you don't like electronic jambands...too much breakbeats...and a few of you think lyrics are essential for success...and a few of you think we're starting to sound derivative...well when you put a moniker on anything (jambands) people start to emulate it. i love neo-fun bands as much as you all but when a new genre pops up and you try to understand how to describe it to people some people genrify their style and don't realize that these bands started up as absolutely unique bands that had few fans. now that people hear it there is bound to be overlap. i'm not excusing it just explaining my point of view.

as a musician in the scene i know that songwriting is ultra important. it's also really difficult to pull off and stay totally fresh sometimes which is really the biggest obstacle for a lot of people.

money is a huge concern. us musicians do it for the music while entertainers do it for the money. entertainers get the attention and the musicians get kraft dinner. i'm not saying undermine your creativity and sell out, but maybe we could find a way to get paid better...anyone have any good ideas??

i've played for 2 bucks before. it sucked but was fun...in a very sucky way.

i really resent the idea of a musicians' union but it makes a lot of business sense...it's just a bit scary how you can never realyl get out of it...someone always knows you got out or don't follow policy(if you're a realistic person) and there are a lot of assholes out there that have issues to deal with...you never know what can happen.

we 4really need to organize ourselves to help rather than just expecting people to do it. i'll give the ideas but don't expect me to coolate them or organize anyithing just yet.

i wish i could. soon.

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I'm a little late here too, but I have a couple of things to say:

1. Honestly, I wouldn't go to see a band that I have never heard before by myself. Without booze - yes. Without friends - no. Without drugs - always (I just have no interest in them). I am quite new to this scene, but there is no way that I would be enjoying it as much as I am without being surrounded by friends. To me, it's not all about the music. It's about the crowd too. And 1 without the other just doesn't do it for me. This is why I love to see Nero. They kick my ass with their tunes, and I am amoungst some of the greatest people that I have ever met (if only I could get me mother to a show!)

2. Too often, I was overwhelmed with information and opinions. It took me about 2 years to truly experience my own opinion. I have read many posts here that offer the advice to introduce the music to newbies and let them experience in their own way. Take that advice people.

3. I love the music, but I am not a die-hard. This is perhaps why I need both the tunes and the people. Let's not narrow the scene to just the die-hards. There are many people out there that are looking for good times with good tunes and good folks. I understand that it's more interesting to meet others that you can share a conversation with about a particular show, but eventually, these newbies can offer that to you.

In closing, thanks to everyone (bands, fans, friends, venues). I have really enjoyed this summer! [big Grin]

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With no phish or dead for the first time, many people who toured economically and lived on the road (or dreamed of it) might now turn to performing music as an outlet for touring. I think everyone should take it easy. Empty gigs help no one. Over saturation is easy. I think a lot of bands should play less gigs and make the gigs bigger & better!!! Many of us are in constant search for that next great moment (and live one at a time). Lets make moments. Everyone together.

Competative art is an oxi-moron.

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quote:

Originally posted by puddles:

IN MY WORLD,EVERYTHING IS JUST DANDY!
!!!
!!!
[smile][smile][smile]

...as it should be mr. pudds, as it should be!

quote:

Originally posted by Sally:

Let's not narrow the scene to just the die-hards. There are many people out there that are looking for good times with good tunes and good folks. I understand that it's more interesting to meet others that you can share a conversation with about a particular show, but eventually, these newbies can offer that to you

...i like that one too! all of the diehards i've had the chance to talk with so far have been more than willing to curb their enthusiasm and 'talk down' (in a very good way) to me... just to prevent a cranial overload on my part!

happy to be

under the sea

in an octopus' garden

in the scene

[Razz]

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