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Bowling for Columbine


gentlemonkey
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Has anyone seen this yet?

I'm in the middle of stupid white men (thnx asparagus!) and i was wondering if the movie has anything to do with the book. I think we're gonna go see it..

Micheal Moore is the coolest man ever. If someone hasn't read/seen his stuff.. check out roger and me for a start.. great filmmaking.

anyway, peace!

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Bowling for Columbine is more to do with gun control in America I believe...the title came about because while the media was blaming violent video games (among other things) for the shootings at Columbine, it turns out that the guys who did it actually bowled the morning (or night before or something) of the shooting.

Go here for the trailer and more info:

Michael Moore Home Page

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Not that this has anything to do with the books, but does with a bookstore... ur cd's finally arrived yesterday boys... and guess what.. i put ya up on the post beside Trey and Phil like I said and sold one the first day... this dude new nothing about you or jamband music and by the time he was done he left with ur cd, the new Scofield, Dave Matthews and three other jazz cd's...

may have to re order more soon... have phun guys! ur goin platinum!

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I haven't seen it yet, but I saw an interview with him and a clip that showed him opening up a bank account and this particular branch was giving out free guns with every new account opened. They had a huge selection to choose from and housed thousands of guns in their vaults. He also had some very strong words to say about America arming Iraq.

Oh yeah another story he told just popped into my head. He took two of the kids that were injured in the Columbine shootings into K-Mart (?) the number one distributer of bullets in the United States. He brought the two kids to the Customer Service desk and asked if he could return two bullets. Apparently K-Mart (or WalMart I forget) pulled all the bullets off the shelves and no longer sell them IIRC.

Clever guy from what I could tell.

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Micheal Moore is so on my hero list..definitely a cool dude. To my suprise he was on CNN last night. Also there was this real bitch type who probably( drinks oil for breakfast, holding her gun, ranting about the right to life, liberty and so on and so forth), dissing him every chance she got.

Moores' looking a bit chunkified...it would realy suck if we lost him to a heart attack...we need this guy to keep talking....Moore for presidante~

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I'm planning to see it tomorrow night. Here's a great quote from Michael Moore in the movie (during the famous Charlton Heston interview):

"...it shouldn't be 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' - it should be 'guns don't kill people, Americans kill people'"

then he went into the statistics for handgun murders in the states compared with the rest of the world.

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I saw it Sunday night at the Cumberland. It made me laugh, it made me cry and it made me think. What a great film!

There was also this really funny guy in the bathroom at the theatre who i had this conversation with about Francis Ford Coppola. Well mainly about his last name.

anyway, see the movie.

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I really liked this new film by Michael Moore. I've seen everything he's done, from Roger & Me, The Big One, TV Nation, The Awful Truth and even Canadian Bacon. This is his best work. I must say the film is intentionally naive in it's portrail of violence in Canada, and Moore is way too one-sided, but that's always been his style, and I like his style.

I think this Toronto Sun article will interest most and disappoint some of you about Moore's status as hero of the common man. Note: Ben Mulroney nailed what Moore is often like. As much as I've admired Moore for the last , I am equally disappointed in his political and social dichotomies.

October 27, 2002

Moore's not perfect after all

Filmmaker is one heck of a salesman

By BEN MULRONEY -- For the Sun

Bowling For Columbine, the new film by Michael Moore, was the darling of this year's Toronto International Film Festival.

The man who opened our eyes to the plight of autoworkers in the rusted steel belt, in his masterpiece Roger And Me has taken on the daunting task of peeling the onion of the American psyche, by asking: "Why do Americans seem to be predisposed to gun violence?"

TRAGEDY

His quest began after the tragedy at Columbine High School, in Colorado, and the movie, Bowling For Columbine, takes the viewer on an intricate voyage through the institutions of welfare, gang culture, violence against women and the corporate power structure.

As far as films go, this one is truly complete. It made me laugh, it made me cry, it made me think and it pushed all my buttons. While it is entirely too biased to be considered a true "documentary," I am glad this movie was made, and for that, Moore must be congratulated.

But during the promotional junket for Bowling for Columbine, I had an encounter with this American filmmaker and icon that changed my outlook on his work.

As we sat down for our interview, Moore and I chatted about the difference between Canadian and American politicians. He stated that had my father been a politician south of the border, he would have been considered a Liberal Democrat.

SOCIAL SAFETY NET

I followed up with a broad suggestion that even the most right-wing Canadian politicians believe in maintaining a comprehensive social safety net. What followed was a casual conversation about how great Canada is, and why Americans should strive to be more like us. After a few more polite words, we began the interview.

A few days later, I watched another Moore interview conducted during the film festival. It was during that sit-down that I heard Moore warn the journalist that Canada was in danger of emulating America's bloody and violent mistakes.

Canada has been promoting individual rights, at the expense of its responsibility to its most underprivileged, and this trend, he stated, began during the Tory governments of the 1980s.

The accuracy of that statement would best be left to another day.

What shocked me was not his cavalier attempt at judging the Canadian psyche, but rather the ease with which he was capable of spouting out mutually-exclusive arguments.

Liberal Democrats, by definition, do not promote the individual to the detriment of the greater good and Americans cannot very well emulate Canadians if we are following their lead.

I realized that Moore is not the tip of the sword of social justice, as I once thought. Rather, he is a salesman -- the prototypical capitalist -- peddling his wares as effectively as he can.

DILUTED MESSAGE

He told me, not what he necessarily believed, but what I wanted to hear, and our interview went swimmingly.

Bowling for Columbine is an excellent film that is worthy of praise and discussion.

But when it comes to Michael Moore movies, the messenger is as important as the message.

These recent experiences have diluted Moore's important message and, in doing so, undermine his position as one of the great American pioneers of social justice.

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hmmm...

quote:

What followed was a casual conversation about how great Canada is, and why Americans should strive to be more like us.

quote:

A few days later, I watched another Moore interview conducted during the film festival. It was during that sit-down that I heard Moore warn the journalist that Canada was in danger of emulating America's bloody and violent mistakes.

Canada has been promoting individual rights, at the expense of its responsibility to its most underprivileged, and this trend, he stated, began during the Tory governments of the 1980s.


I dunno. I think I could argue both those angles too. I like the Canadian social net situation better than the States' situation and think they would be better off emulating ours. AND I think we have been eroding that social net since the 80s when Mulroney brought in free trade and started drastically cutting back social programs while increasingly doling out the corporate welfare. A very American way of running things. We have a liberal government but all the social services damage of that era has definately not been repaired yet.

I heard the same CNN interview and it seemed that Moore was implying that the US and Canada should learn from each other. That the States should cut back on the drastic levels of violence and suffering by making it a little tougher to get a gun, helping the poor more and re-evaluating the 'war' on drugs. And that we Canadians should stop letting our social net erode to a point where drive-by shootings and homelessness become equal that of the States. He also made a strong point of saying that Canada is a great country and we should all do what we can to keep it great.

This article seems like attempted sensationalism from a generally right-wing, tabloid to slander a left-wing film-maker based on a non issue. (Ahhh, I didn't even notice that the article was written by 'sell the water and the trees for personal and professional favours, pro-war on drugs, pro-bomb iraq, pro-bomb afghanistan' Mulroney's son)

Anyways, I admire Moore a lot but don't agree with every single thought he puts forward. My point is if you are going to have a beef with him, don't let it be because of deeply biased, poorly argued journalism. Judge him based on the value of his art. To be good at making documentaries you have to be able to look at a situation from many different perspectives. Which, this article proves, if anything, he is apperently good at.

quote:

As we sat down for our interview, Moore and I chatted about the difference between Canadian and American politicians. He stated that had my father been a politician south of the border, he would have been considered a Liberal Democrat.

Trying to be polite and also stating that all american politics are slanted towards corporate right-wing attitudes, be they Republican or Democrat.

I would have to say that Ben Mulroney was upset that his dad got labled a bad guy and mistook tact (Moore not calling his dad an asshole right then and there) for a strange method of salesmanship. (conservatives seem to think everything is some kind of a sale) I think Michael just wanted Ben to like him. [smile] And he's smart enough not to instigate fisty-cuffs with a country's former leader's little boy who comes from a family chock full of lawyers.

Having the the former conservative PMs son interview a famous liberal film-maker adds up to nothing more than sensationalism. It avoids all the issues Moore discusses and just essentially calls him names. A good book that addresses making news from no news to confuse and incite the masses is Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead".

Blah.......... My first post and its on politics [Frown]

Before I read any news in the day I always go to The Astronomy Picture of the Day .

Check it out. It makes the rest of the news easier to swallow after staring into 'space' for a bit.

Have a great day!

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That got too wordy and caught up in just part of the article. Been a while since I've had a chance to take it to the streets. Hardly even read Jaimoe's comments.

The tabloid headlines of "Moore's not perfect after all" and the "one heck of a salesman" set me off. But thats what sells papers and its not like there is absolutely no truth in it. I have never thought Moore was 'perfect' or anywhere near it and figured pitching his film would require some salemanship. I actually agree that Moore isn't a great or usually even good spokesperson.

Ben did compliment the movie and its message. I wasn't impressed by his lack of direct quotes in describing his interview with Moore and get kind of edgy when people make strong judgements based on paraphrasing. But I got too excited.

Sorry Ben Mulroney. Sorry media.

My concern was that readers are led to worry more about Moore being a capitalist non-perfecto than being encouraged to see a well made film addressing pertinent social issues. Might even avoid the film as a result.

No more middle of the night commentary after crazy week-long binges.

I bet thats Moore's problem too.

Anyways, I've heard the film is great. Hoping to see so over the next week. I'll probably hate it and be back to contradict myself moore.

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Awesome movie. Moore is equally as one sided on American politics as I am, and I trust his film will do well in the US and even better everywhere else.

Unfortunately, I get the evil suspician that most Americans who see the movie will say, "He's right" and immediately follow up with, "But things will never change. Hey, Cops is on, let's vote for Bush again!"

Just my uninformed opinion.

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What a flick. An emotional roller coaster. Some highlights for me were the scene where Moore reviews the US led murders world wide in the 20th. And definately LOVED the cartoon....just hilarious. I love the media instilling fear theme. That really got me. I am not surprised scary movies are still popular that's for sure.

Everyone GO SEE IT!!

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Velvet has it partly right on reaction to Columbine and MM in general here. Even though Vermont is pretty different than most of the rest of the country, we do have a sizable number of people who are obsessed with a relatively minor clause in the second amendment. The people in this country who are fans of MM would vote for him for president. The people watching Cops waiting to vote for president Shrub have never even heard of Michael Moore. The problem is you cant try reasoning with a moron with a flag in one hand and a gun in the other. And after that I need a trip up north again. Cant wait to see the movie either btw but i gotta go cuz Cops is on ha-ha.

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Saw this yesterday, if you haven't already SEE IT!

While I did think some of what Moore was saying was a bit simplistic or contradictory in places, if you treat it as an amusing and thought-provoking (albeit biased) look at the topic, you couldn't get a much better one. A totally excellent way to spend two hours.

FYI, in Toronto it's playing at SilverCity Eglinton and I think at Yorkdale.

Peace,

Mr. M.

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