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US 2004 election thread


bouche

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Maybe it's more important to determine the human rights of any possible clones now before we're faced with the need to. If enslaving them is not legal than why fu©kin bother? Seriously, why not continue the propagation of a consumer culture of the ultra-rich, medico-immortal neo-colonisers we pretend not to be, when we live like bohemians, buying everything else in our path? :(

I don't really pray, so I'll meditate.

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Bush has scared the hell outta me from the get-go. I've been as anti-Bush as anyone I know.

But I'm not quiiiiiite so sure anymore. I have come to think that perhaps it would be best if Bush were to stay in power, to continue his quest to win the war. Perhaps a win for Kerry would mean the drawing in of other nations to help solve the problems created by Bush- he started this and the last thing I want is to see other nations' troops drawn into the mess. There's an argument to be made that the war is stemming the Republicans' vision of Manifest Destiny and hopefully Bush's next four years would be devoted to cleaning up a messy situation and not moving on to the next target. Also I can't help but feel that the reason the Iraqis are being so defiant has something to do with their hatred for Bush.

Perhaps I'm just trying to assure myself that whatever happens things'll be alright- hell, I'll be cracking the champale if Kerry pulls it off...

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I just posted this on another message board, but this debate is pretty good.... Here's food for thought...

Something tells me that Kerry is on the same team anyways... good old buddies with Sr. and he'll still have the same agenda as Bush but of course, with a different angle. Strategically, this is kind of scary. In the eyes of the world, Kerry could rekindle a new world view of the USA, regain some trust and repect in the UN and the rest of the world for that matter. But... he'll still be on the same mission as Bush... oil and corporate domination etc.... Again, it would make sense strategically to yoink Bush (with whatever dignity he can retain) because let's face it, he doesn't have the best reputation right now.... he is viewed as an evil man!!

Come on conspiracy junkies, what do you think? There are some great folks in that country and I don't think Kerry nor Bush will help the cause... the sh!t's going to hit the fan regardless I guess.

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I'm gonna post this again.

100 Facts and 1 Opinion

The Patriot Act

All conspiricy theories aside.If these links dont convince you that Bush should not be in power go watch Farenhight 911. I just finished watching it for the first time. There is no doubt in my mind that that administration is swindiling the American people.

Needless to say I'm pulling for Kerry on this one.

"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"

~George Orwell, 1984

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Come on conspiracy junkies, what do you think? There are some great folks in that country and I don't think Kerry nor Bush will help the cause... the sh!t's going to hit the fan regardless I guess.

Kerry is friends with The Dead and that gives me optimistic conspiracy theories.

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It's interesting watching the BBC's coverage of the election here in the UK. The media here is extremely critical of the Republican administration, and there are loads of anti-American sentiment here, especially after Tony Blair's decision last week to let the American military control certain UK troops in Iraq.

Today at 5PM (noon EST) my Visual Literacy Prof is screening 'Fahrenheit 9/11' followed by a debate/discussion on the issues. He is extremely anti-Bush and has tought at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh for the past three years so I'm really looking forward to what he has to say. After that, we're all getting together at the pub at 11PM to watch the results. People here really want Bush to lose, as America's credibility on the European and British stage has been lost with this current administration; or atleast that's the sentiment I'm receiving from the people here.

Last night on BBC1 there was an hour long special on Global Warming and how it is the largest 'terrorist threat' facing humanaity. We are all succeptible to the effects of the climate change and with nothing being done about it by Bush (not agreeing to join the Kyoto Accord), if he wins, we may simply be put in a hole too large to climb out of. In addition, growing poverty and aids issues plaguing Africa are turning desperate and helpless countries into hotbeds for fundamentalist salvation, which could increase 'terrorism' greatly because with no food, jobs or hope, you turn to anything you can get. Foreign aid has decreased with the Bush administration but military aid has burgeoned significantly. I think this election is even more important than we perceive it to be. Or maybe I'm babbling.

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Shainhouse,

You'll find this section of the Patriot act pretty ironic after watchhing F 911.

SEC. 427. NO BENEFITS TO TERRORISTS OR FAMILY MEMBERS OF TERRORISTS.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this subtitle, nothing in this subtitle shall be construed to provide any benefit or relief to--

(1) any individual culpable for a specified terrorist activity; or

(2) any family member of any individual described in paragraph (1).

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This is a pretty big day. I've got a nice mix of coffee, dread, fear and loathing going just enough to keep me on my toes and checking google news periodically.

Outside of the close-call election I think what scares me most is the Bin Laden video, and the effect that may have one way or the other. Although there are people in both camps saying it will help their cause, what concerns me most is that a single terrorist with a worldwide network of operatives is living out his dream of running the United States. I haven't a doubt that he is manipulating this election in some way or another, and no matter who gets elected OBL represents the most substantial threat we've ever faced in our lifetimes.

This doesn't mean I support Bush, nor does it mean I support Kerry. It means that our safety is ultimately in the hands of one of those men, and Americans in line at the polls I suspect are thinking the same thing...."Yikes!"

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Mountain hamlets cast first votes

By JIM COLE - Associated Press

HART'S LOCATION, N.H. (AP) -- The nation's first Election Day votes were cast and counted just after midnight in a pair of mountain hamlets, with 35 votes for President Bush besting challenger John Kerry's 21. Ralph Nader received one vote.

The first Tuesday votes came from the northern New Hampshire community of Hart's Location, where 16 voters chose Bush, 14 went with Kerry and one chose Nader. Minutes later, the 26 registered voters in Dixville Notch, about 50 miles to the north, split 19 for Bush and 7 for Kerry.

The tiny communities since 1948 sporadically have been taking advantage of a state law that allows communities to close polls early if all registered voters have cast ballots.

In 2000, both communities chose President Bush over Democrat Al Gore. In Hart's Location, Bush won 17-13. In Dixville Notch, about 50 miles to the north, Bush had 21, Gore five and Ralph Nader one vote.

By state law, polls must be open between 11 a.m. and 7 p.m. But nothing prevents a town from opening the polls earlier and closing after all potential voters have cast ballots.

Hart's Location began doing just that in 1948 because nearly everyone in town worked for the railroad and many had to be at work before normal voting hours. Dixville followed in 1960.

National media attention to these "first votes" began in 1952, when the state let voters in the state's earliest presidential primary vote for the candidates themselves rather than delegates to the national party conventions. The Republican primary made news that year because Gen. Dwight Eisenhower upset party favorite Robert A. Taft.

Small towns including Hart's Location, Millsfield and Waterville Valley soon were competing to cast the nation's first votes. Hart's Location dropped early voting in 1964, only to revive it 1996.

Dixville didn't get into the act until 1960 for the general election. Reflecting the state's then-solid Republican leanings, Republican Richard Nixon beat Democrat John Kennedy, 9-0.

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no you don't hate politics, don't be silly.... ;)

The Electoral College is basically a rubber stamp (unless there is some crazy tie scenario)it is the vote results in the states that determine where the Electoral College votes go, if someone wins a state, they get the EC votes. The actual casting of them in Jan. or whatever is ceremonial...

Check this site out:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

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What a big surprise.

from www.billboard.com

Edited By Jonathan Cohen. November 02, 2004, 11:00 AM ET

Rock The Vote, MTV Irk GOP

MTV and the nonprofit group Rock the Vote, partners in a massive public awareness campaign to encourage young Americans to participate in today's (Nov. 2) presidential election, have come under fire from Republicans accusing them of pushing a pro-Democratic agenda and challenging MTV and Rock the Vote's assertions that their get-out-the-vote campaigns are nonpartisan.

The charges stem mainly from a Rock the Vote campaign focused on the issue of a military draft. To get its point across, Rock the Vote sent out 660,000 e-mails in late September with a mock draft card signed by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

"You are hereby ordered for induction into the Armed Forces of the United States, and to report to a polling place near you," read the draft cards.

In addition, Rock the Vote created two public service announcements focused on the issue of the draft and a third celebrity-packed PSA that referred to the draft as one of many issues young voters might be concerned about. At least one of the draft-themed PSAs ran on MTV for 10 consecutive days in September. Rock the Vote also has devoted a significant amount of content to the issue on its Web site.

Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, sent a letter to Rock the Vote president Jehmu Greene on Oct. 13 warning her that Rock the Vote had an "obligation to immediately cease and desist from promoting or conducting" its draft campaign "as a nonpartisan organization that enjoys the benefits of being formed under 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code."

Asserting that the "urban myth regarding a draft" had been "thoroughly debunked" by President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld, Gillespie wrote: "This is the sort of malicious political deception that is likely to increase voter cynicism and in fact decrease the youth vote, as well as raising serious legal issues regarding the political motivations of your efforts."

Although the Republican Party's ire was raised by a Rock the Vote initiative, MTV -- which has been aligned with Rock the Vote for more than a decade and is one of the organization's financial supporters -- became a target as well. Viacom co-president and co-chief operating officer Tom Freston and MTV Networks chairman and CEO Judy McGrath are founding board members of Rock the Vote.

Dozens of protesters from the California College Republicans demonstrated Oct. 22 outside MTV Networks in Santa Monica, shouting such slogans as "Pimp my ride, not my vote" and "Total Request Lies." Despite MTV's statements that it had nothing to do with Rock the Vote's draft campaign, many Republican critics refused to draw a distinction between the two organizations that have partnered to register young voters and educate them on issues before Election Day.

"The draft scare has credibility because of MTV," said Michael Davidson, chairman of California College Republicans. "Kids know about Rock the Vote because of MTV." Davidson also alleged that MTV and Rock the Vote present young voters with perspectives on the issues that he described as "clearly left of center."

MTV and Rock the Vote executives maintain that their campaigns are designed only to grab the attention of fickle younger viewers and have no partisan motivation.

"We've never endorsed a candidate; we've never endorsed a party," said Fred Goldring, chairman of the board of Rock the Vote. "We just raise issues that young people have told us are important to them."

Goldring said Rock the Vote had Republicans on its board that knew about the organization's plan to raise the draft issue as a legitimate concern of young people that needed to be addressed by the two major-party presidential candidates. And he said Rock the Vote removed Rumsfeld's signature from the draft card as soon as complaints were lodged.

For its part, MTV said it has been fair and unbiased in its coverage of the candidates, doing its best to give equal time to Democrats and Republicans. While Kerry has been interviewed on MTV five times, MTV personalities have interviewed Bush surrogates like Gillespie, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman because the president has been unavailable, an MTV spokesperson said.

"We are not biased in our coverage in any way, shape or form," MTV spokesperson Jeannie Kedas said. "We are very proud of our efforts in that regard, and we've been recognized by our audience."

As part of its "Choose or Lose: 20 Million Loud" campaign, MTV has run a dozen long-format specials and about 120 news pieces about the election. Since the beginning of the year, its has aired nearly 4,000 public service announcements urging young people to vote, only a handful of which were produced by Rock the Vote.

Rock the Vote, along with its partners, has spent about $40 million registering 1.4 million voters, nearly three times the number it registered in the 2000 election.

Rock the Vote's Greene said the organization never suggested that Bush favors the draft. "The issue is not whether the politicians want a draft," she said. "The issue is when does the draft become necessary, and that's what young people want to know and need to know. It's not a partisan issue when young people of this country need a fair hearing."

-- Gail Schiller, The Hollywood Reporter

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