The Grateful Dead are The Best Band Ever!!!!!!

[TimmyB]

Now,your point was?

Dylan smokes em both anyway. ::

Once again Esau I agree with you completely.

[secondtube]

i *think* its a different Corrina.

[Lazlo]

Dylan was great in his youth but the drugs wore him down.

[hamilton]

Okay, one more time, let's try to talk some sense here.

Your favourite band ever is whatever you want it o tbe - the Beatles, the Grateful Dead, Wham!, whatever. However, the most important band was, far and away, the Beatles.

Let's make a list of movements that the Grateful Dead are repsonsible for. I can think of one: Deadhead culture. I'm not mocking it, belittling it, or saying anything remotely negative about it. But the importance of Deadhead culture is being entirely overstated here.

Why? Because all of the left-leaning, ecologically-friendly, alternative-minded, health-conscious, capitalist-questioning, anti-corporate, peace-loving individuals out there are not the result of the Deadhead culture - just that they have similar goals and ideals.

The Grateful Dead did not create hippies. They did not spark the cultural revolution of the sixties - they were a product of and a part of what was happening at the time. The cultural shift would have happened even if none of the members of the Grateful Dead were ever born. This revolution was a product of the Beat movement, of the Vietnam conflict, of the economic prosperity of America, and many other forces converging in time.

The Dead were young, intelligent, open-minded, willing to experiment (with both music and substances, not to mention ideas), and extremely talented. The made beautiful music and were succesful - for another thirty years. I love them.

The environmental movement however, was certainly not spearheaded by the Dead, although they were certainly sympathetic to it. Is David Suzuki a Deadhead? I doubt it. And the idea of spreading social consciousness through music dates back as far as Woody Guthrie, if not further.

As for the Dead spearheading music-file-swapping and such, they certainly were involved at a rather early stage, and I'm sure that their taping policies definitely had an effect on current things like InstantLive CDs and such. But Napster and Kazaa and the like would have happened anyway, because the technology exists, people like getting things for free, and people enjoy music of all kinds.

As for politics, if you know anything about the Dead, you should know that they hated politics, and they almost never addressed the issue - although, when they did, they were decidedly non-partisan. And John Perry Barlow? He's a Republican, dudes - and a respected and relatively-influential one (although he's really more of a libertarian, to be honest).

Now, for the Beatles:

In the early sixties, rock 'n' roll was considered passe, out-of-stlye. Elvis had joined the Army, Buddy Holly was dead. Fresh-faced pop crooners like Bobby Darin and Paul Anka were at the top of the charts. Even the Rolling Stones, once they got rolling, were more on the blues side of r'n'b... they didn't really start to "rock" for a few albums yet.

The Beatles, four dudes from Liverpool of all places (considered a cultural backwater by the rest of England), brough rock 'n' roll back with a vengeance, topping the charts, horrifying parents, and making teens (both male and female) scream with delight. Musically, they influenced every band that would follow (including the Grateful Dead who gave up being a jug band to play rock 'n' roll after watching A Hard Days Night, as previously discussed). The only other person to cause near the same reaction, or have anywhere near as much influence on those that would follow, was Elvis himself.

So, basically, the Bealtes ensured that rock and roll was a dominant force in the music industry to this very day. Number 2, you keep wanting to talk about chickens and eggs, but you consistently ignore the fact that The Beatles were a definite influence on the Dead.

Oh, and a personal story: Many of you know that I used to live in Korea. My girlfriend over there, a big fan of music, did not know who the Grateful Dead were. She had heard of, but did not know anything about, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and The Who. She was familiar with the bigger songs of The Rolling Stones. But you know what? She, like millions of other Koreans under the age of fifty, knew almost all of the songs of the Beatles. Now, being a hit on both sides of the Atlantic is often hard enough - how many other artists can claim to overcome the vast cultural differences between Asian and Western cultures and be incredibly popular in both? Not the Dead, anyway. Although U2 was really rather big over there, now that I think of it.

Oh, and the most-covered song in modern history? "Yesterday" by the Beatles.

[hamilton]

i *think* its a different Corrina.

You are correct.

[Esau]

I certianly don't disagree with you hamilton pertaining to Beatles - GD but I would argue then that Dylan had a larger effect.

From ALLMusic.com-

Bob Dylan's influence on popular music is incalculable. As a songwriter, he pioneered several different schools of pop songwriting, from confessional singer/songwriter to winding, hallucinatory, stream-of-conscious narratives. As a vocalist, he broke down the notions that in order to perform, a singer had to have a conventionally good voice, thereby redefining the role of vocalist in popular music. As a musician, he sparked several genres of pop music, including electrified folk-rock and country-rock. And that just touches on the tip of his achievements. Dylan's force was evident during his height of popularity in the '60s — the Beatles' shift toward introspective songwriting in the mid-'60s never would have happened without him — but his influence echoed throughout several subsequent generations. Many of his songs became popular standards, and his best albums were undisputed classics of the rock & roll canon. Dylan's influence throughout folk music was equally powerful, and he marks a pivotal turning point in its 20th century evolution, signifying when the genre moved away from traditional songs and toward personal songwriting. Even when his sales declined in the '80s and '90s, Dylan's presence was calculable.

The Beatles were a definite influence on the Dead.

And Dylan an influence on the Beatles.

Oh, and the most-covered song in modern history? "Yesterday" by the Beatles.

Funny I was just talking about this today with my neighbour.He had a Rolling Stone mag that mentioned that,but then it mentioned that Dylan's music holds the record for artist most covered.

[secondtube]

i'm also under the impression dylan holds the record for arist most covered....

i think i heard it on q107 (which means it has to be true!)

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I realize that this argument is as stale as melba toast.... but, I especially like listening to Hamilton's posts.... you know we are probably going to spend way too much time one night discussing this sh!t!!! anyhow, I personally think the Dead has a greater impact, I don't want to get into it, I think this whole debate is pissing people off... so, I will save whatever comments or ammunition I have in my brain for some other time....

[Esau]

People are getting pissed off?

Now thats funny.Sad & pathetic,but funny.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

well, maybe that's an exaggeration, or better yet, the wrong use of word, but, I think this argument is getting tired on here.

[Esau]

Well,I thought it suddely turned into a decnt discussion,alot better from the earlier "I know you are but what am I" feel it had.

I love all both GD & The Beatles,I couldn't careless who had the biggest influnce on the world really,but when were talking who influenced who then I'll throw my two cents in like everyone else.

Anyway,I'll drop it since feelings are obviously hurt or egos destroyed,but will leave ya'll with a last quote:

There's no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or as a player. I don't think any eulogizing will do him justice. He was that great, much more than a superb musician, with an uncanny ear and dexterity. He's the very spirit personified of whatever is Muddy River country at its core and screams up into the spheres. He really had no equal. To me he wasn't only a musician and friend, he was more like a big brother who taught and showed me more than he'll ever know. There's a lot of spaces and advances between The Carter Family, Buddy Holly and, say, Ornette Coleman, a lot of universes, but he filled them all without being a member of any school. His playing was moody, awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. There's no way to convey the loss. It just digs down really deep.

-Bob Dylan speaking on Jerry's passing.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

man---you know, as great of a musician Dylan is, I think I am more impressed by the way he can express himself with words... fu©king beautiful.

[hamilton]

The Beatles were a definite influence on the Dead.

And Dylan an influence on the Beatles.

Excellent point, Esau.

Although I will put forward the idea that this one is like a dog chasing its own tail. I won't try to do it right now, but you could argue that musically speaking, Dylan might never have gone electric if The Beatles hadn't re-popularized, rock and roll; but that post-meeting-Dylan-era Beatles tunes might not have had the same effect if Dylan hadn't influenced the Beatles lyrically. Interesting, that.

Oh, and the most-covered song in modern history? "Yesterday" by the Beatles.

Funny I was just talking about this today with my neighbour.He had a Rolling Stone mag that mentioned that,but then it mentioned that Dylan's music holds the record for artist most covered.

"Yesterday" is also the most played song in history, but I'm not sure if the Beatles version of the song holds that title, or if it is simply the most played by virtue of its being the most-covered (I foget the number of covers, but it must be upwards of 2400, which is the number of recorded versions of "Louie Louie").

[hamilton]

well, maybe that's an exaggeration, or better yet, the wrong use of word, but, I think this argument is getting tired on here.

Hey - if they don't want to read it, they don't have to open the thread. If anyone is gettin' pissed off or bored, it's pretty much their own fault.

[Esau]

Excellent point, Esau.

Although I will put forward the idea that this one is like a dog chasing its own tail. I won't try to do it right now, but you could argue that musically speaking, Dylan might never have gone electric if The Beatles hadn't re-popularized, rock and roll; but that post-meeting-Dylan-era Beatles tunes might not have had the same effect if Dylan hadn't influenced the Beatles lyrically. Interesting, that.

LOL,yeah,I agree with you on that,I've had this coversation before...a few times...

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

"(George Harrison) was a giant, a great, great soul, with all the humanity, all the wit and humor, all the wisdom, the spirituality, the common sense of a man and compassion for people. He inspired love and had the strength of a hundred men. He was like the sun, the flowers, and the moon, and we will miss him enormously. The world is a profoundly emptier place without him." ~ Bob Dylan

here's another beaut.

[Booche]

Quotes?

You want quotes?

We're more popular than Jesus now..........

All Jerry was worried about was having a bunch of crazy-ass radicals chasing after him with a cross, but he laughed, and he laughed, 'cause he knew the Dead would never be trivialized.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

on my way to hockey in Steeltown I listened to the Dead and pondered all of your thoughts and I thought about this to throw out there... Now, this is more of a question than a statement since I do not play an istrument (outside of the word-processor) and so my opinion in this may be overshadowed by those who have more knowledge on the skill playing of instruments, but from my ignorant point of view I would think that the Grateful Dead are far superior musicians than the Beatles, at least, that's what it sounds like to me, what do y'all think? :: ::

[Booche]

Billy was better than Ringo, yes.

Are you satisfied?

[Esau]

Quotes?

You want quotes?

We're more popular than Jesus now..........

All Jerry was worried about was having a bunch of crazy-ass radicals chasing after him with a cross, but he laughed, and he laughed, 'cause he knew the Dead would never be trivialized.

Take your sideshow somewhere else frat boy and lay off the beer bongs.

[Booche]

Wait, I cant say that for sure.

I am not a drummer.

I retract my last post.