Getting Out Of This Scene...

[shitidiot]

Esau= most solid and kind hearted brother I've met.

zero you are a piece of sh!t, a rat and two faced kiss ass. i could care less what you think of me or say about me. unlike you i do not need the attention of this message board to make my life have meaning. I'm sorry that you mommy never loved you but stop asking some one else to solve your problems. they're your problems and only you can help your self.

just leave this place like you said you were

you are a waste of time.

over and out.

[bONES]

(in my best Fez accent)

I said good day!

[Im going home Donny]

Post deleted by howler

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

Esau= most solid and kind hearted brother I've met.

zero you are a piece of sh!t, a rat and two faced kiss ass. i could care less what you think of me or say about me. unlike you i do not need the attention of this message board to make my life have meaning. I'm sorry that you mommy never loved you but stop asking some one else to solve your problems. they're your problems and only you can help your self.

just leave this place like you said you were

you are a waste of time.

over and out.

? why? ::

[SaggyBalls]

I understand how posting a photo of a skinhead on a thread started by a guy that got his ass beat down hardcore by a bunch of skinheads might be seen as inappropriate, but i can see how it's appropriate as well.

I understand that this is an important part of the daily routines and connectivity of many people that frequent this board and it's very dear to them,

I also have to sentiment that 'it's an internet messageboard' as well (in no way am i undermining the work and energy that has gone into this site btw).

so what if it's a picture in a thread...so what if it's mean comments...as crude and uncouth it may be, it's also crude and uncouth to work people up just because you're a maniac (one that is frought with 'mania'...sorry...'inspired'.

I see both sides of it - at least I think I do. I understand why Zero is such a thorn in our sides but I also think that he's got a lot of commendable qualities. I just think they're really overshadowed at this point.

I really like both esau and Zero/kung.

I've had more to do with Esau in real life, but every time I see Kung i get the feeling that he's somebody we shouldn't quite turn our backs on...maybe just be indifferent to if we really don't care about him.

He's given me some insight into myself a couple of times and made me think about the way I act and the people I surround myself with. Defintely an important person for the development of me. I really appreciate his energy in person. too bad it doesn't translate too well online. a very intelligent guy that gets a lot of flack (sometimes duly, sometimes not) and hasn't lived up to his potential.

takes one to know one.

I think it is really sh!tty that bad times have to befall anybody but there's always a reason for everything.

I think it's maybe a sign for him to step up to the plate and make something of his life and the world around him.

I think maybe it's a sign for US to do the same.

Getting pissy at somebody that's been pissy at us makes us no better than the first pisser. personally, when it comes to public spaces, i'm used to using the urinal, washing my hands and leaving. for some reason we just keep coming back. makes me feel like i have a strange kind of bladder infection. i don't like the arguing in circles and I don't like all this piss everywhere. it puts everybody into a sour mood and there's nobody around to clean it up unless we all grab a bucket and a mop.

I'm trying to get my personal situation straightened out.

If anybody has any ideas to brighten this place up, why not put them in action.

I remember awhile back, Big Friendly started a songwriting contest and nobody even entered. it's ideas like that that get people working at something (hopefully somebody'll enter if there's another one) instead of slowing work or rubbernecking.

and howler...people gave you sh!t for being negative cause you know better.

it was absolutely out of character...as far as i could tell.

didn't it work?

none of us need to be dicks about this. silence is always the best weapon in cases like this. if we intend to change anything i think the people that come here require something more than a simple fu©k off you stupid loser a$$hole sonofabitch.

i shake my head when i read threads like this.

people praise others openly for being forward thinking and positive. why can't we all learn from this and try to make things work...i can think of scores of people that already work like this on this board...they have appreciation threads with their names on them.

it's one thing to say nice things but it's a totally different ballgame to apply those qualities to yourself.

at the very least we can work towards not acting in ways we don't appreciate.

not to be all 'tsk tsk naughty naughty' up in here, but come now.

we're better than this bullsh!t. it's already at 2 pages...maybe more now...

[dancingbear]

:: :(((good vibes to all)))) :: :: ::

so nye, miami this past year. i go out to meet some friends during set break....we hook up and then look over at this guy sitting in one of two random hallway chairs. this guy is in real bad shape. vomit/pee all over him. drooling. barely maintaing central postural stability. people are walking big arching loops around this dude to avoid him. then this dude comes along, doesnt barely notice the guy and sits down in the other chair with this huge,..i'm on top of the world grin on his face. written on the front of his shirt........PHUCK IT .......

[zero]

I'd like to put some of this nastiness to bed. I will concede to Esau that I may be using selective memory. I may have said I knew how to defend myself, although there is a reason that I have been in one fight in my life and that was in grade 4. If I had thrown a single punch or even seen one coming when the skins lynched me that would count as my second fight which it was not. At that point I couldn't tolerate being threatened at all by anyone, hell I couldn't tolerate being touched. Esau then turned around reported me for some sort of internet slander which you all must realize is totally laughable. If the cops don't have time to investigate a violent assault like mine do you think they have time to investigate the internet shenanigans of a bunch of 'personaes'. fu©king dimwitted if you ask me.

Are Greg and Eric stand up guys? Hell yeah. Do they stand up for what they believe in and make positive contributions to the scene? Another hell yeah. It happens that neither of them are particularly insightful writers though. Moreover watching Bob Dylan last night I was reminded of the reason that I am so disturbed by this row with Greg. It suggests to me that at least some of the Bard's gift is lost on him.

Now that said I think there are any number of people who would say that I am also a stand up guy. Of course because I express my views forcefully at times, arrogantly and eruditely other times I am not entitled to that status I guess. Not that I want it particularly. But then again I do, I have spent a great deal of time and energy writing and thinking about this culture, I have been involved in it for a long time chronologically as well. Then I have a breakdown and have to walk away from the whole thing. It's called sweat equity and I ran several fu©king marathons to get here. Obviously from taking the time to write this I still care about this culture. I've just seen through it's two faces.

I think it's maybe a sign for him to step up to the plate and make something of his life and the world around him.

I think maybe it's a sign for US to do the same.

[Esau]

Talk about being a complete idiot,that sh!t had nothing to do with the internet a$$hole,you know it and are just twisting this to suit your cowardily motives.

As for the Dylan being lost on me (maybe so,who really knows him anyway) ,if you had really paid attention to what you watched you'd see that your outtake of what Dylan is is no different then the masses who follow the myths and Luke from what I have read by you,you have yet to even discover Dylan.

Now why don't you be a man and back up what you say.

fu©kin coward,fall down.

[zero]

Seriously Greg you are presenting a deeply disturbed glimpse of yourself. I can only presume that what I am getting off of you now is how others took me so I am taking that into account. I really had no idea what the fu©k you were on about with this 'I'm calling the cops on you' business. It all arose over the medium of the internet so if you are alluding to threats against one's person or something again that would be more like slander than anything. I think we both have distorted perceptions of this sh!t and will never get past it.

I do want to call you out on this constant reference to being a 'MAN'. What the fu©k does that mean Greg? Your constant reference to 'being stand up' and 'manly' strikes me as pathetic macho posturing but who knows. I am being a man. I am trying to take accountability for my actions, I am trying to face up to my fears, trying to get help where I need it. These are all qualities I associate with humanity. I really have no idea what it is you want from me and how I could accede to the level of manliness that you so obviously hold. Do I need to get tatoos, is that part of it? Oh sorry that would make me a badass not a man. My bad.

As far as Dylan goes I am saying let his words inform your life. Pick a song or lyric for this instance and live by it. Don't just keep trying to call me out in your duel at dawn machoistic fantasy. As far as understanding Dylan goes I may not have more bootlegs than skin mags but I assure you I understand I great deal more about the english language (and a number of other languages) than you ever will. Dylan is a master of language, myth and religious iconography. Knowing a thing or two about what a metaphor is and how it functions, what a myth is and it's purpose and what various symbols have meant through the ages would greatly inform your appreciation for the Bard. I've been many of the places he has been in his mind I'm just not an iota of the man that he is.

[Esau]

I do want to call you out on this constant reference to being a 'MAN'. What the fu©k does that mean Greg? Your constant reference to 'being stand up' and 'manly' strikes me as pathetic macho posturing but who knows. I am being a man. I am trying to take accountability for my actions, I am trying to face up to my fears, trying to get help where I need it. These are all qualities I associate with humanity. I really have no idea what it is you want from me and how I could accede to the level of manliness that you so obviously hold. Do I need to get tatoos, is that part of it? Oh sorry that would make me a badass not a man. My bad.

Funny how cowards forget so fast.

You claimed your were going to "knock some sense into me" and make me feel exactly what you felt.And reminded me of your extensive training in martial arts that you knew I could not defend myself against.Not too mention the real "badass: connections" you have who would gladly do your bidding with a quick phone call.

Now I am calling you out coward.

Show me this almighty power and training you have.

As I said be a man.

If you need that explained to you then you obviously are not the man you think you are.And if you are taking responsibilty for your actions then,come on,when you going to back up up your threats?

Or are you one of those sh!t talkers who thinks they walk the walk when really the are standing still frozen with self denial & social fear.

How does having a good command of a dictionary allow you to understand Dylan anymore then anyone else? All you have is words Luke,no heart,without that you will only understand the words but never the meaning.

edit to add:

You compare yourself to Dylan? Now that proves who has the delusions jackass.

[zero]

I love how you use the word man twice to account for how much of a man I am not. You also introduce the concept of cowardice. What you are referring to is me being rattled by your antagonizing and standing up for myself. I know how to defend myself I just never get in fights. Going over and over and over, while I am sure all of the lurkers dig it, about how much of a non-man coward I am seems rather pointless doesn't it. Don't we both have serious illnesses we are trying to overcome?

As to your last point. I AM ALL HEART BITCH. That is just fu©king idiotic. Do you really think that I am just a walking dictionary/thesaurus? Words are a means of communication they are the mark and the bark. Without anything behind them they are empty vessels. I may create empty sentiments from time to time but for the most part I shoot from the hip and put everything I am and ever will be into what I do. I can't go on like this with you any more you're just being so puerile (see also naive, mawkish, treacly, overly simple and just plain dumb) and idiotic. Why don't you read Dante's Inferno and then ten years from now when you finish it tell me whether or not it informed your listening to Dylan. Then I'll give you Purgatorio and you can take another five years for that and then when you get to Paradise and the redemptive figure of Beatrice you will actually understand a couple of Dylan tunes. By my estimation that will be about 2021.

[Esau]

You have no heart,your a loser face it.

You make threats you can't back up.That is a coward.I invite you to repeat everything you spew to me in person hows that?

Will you be man enough to do that?

As for reading,well I may not write the same as you but I have read probally just as much as you have,but that proves nothing.Dantes Inferno was a book read in highschool fool.

[SaggyBalls]

why don't you use the telephone.

it may seem important to the both of you to bicker but it's not solving anything other than to act as public slander/defamation.

the more you both complain the worse it reflects on the both of you and the rest of us...not trying to sound like a jerk as you're both very passionate about what you talk about but come now...

why can't you just call each other?? i don't think luke wants to fight and I don't think esau should fight anybody...it's kinda unfair with that extra 20 pounds of tatoos it's like he's carrying a club.

as much as it'd be something to see, i dont' think it's really all that constructive...

I'm not a 'peace and love' kinda guy...i'm a 'don't cause any undue bullsh!t for people' kinda guy these days.

whether it's stress or violence or whatever...i think you should both just not pay each other any attention.

esau - he's trying to leave this place. why egg him on?

zero - you're trying to leave this place...you don't have to say anything to the guy...do you really need the last word? does it matter if there's no closure?? it's not like that's the mark you've got to measure over...

if you're both so mature why waste each others' time?

why not go grab a beer and put on some zeppelin??

that should fix it all for the time being.

ramble on, fellas.

[zero]

Are you hearing yourself? You used the word man and coward again. I have no time for your petty savagery.

Dante's Inferno might be a book read in high school but one could spend one's life and never understand it (being the first of three books of the Divine Comedy). God you're fu©king daft. Did you hear Dylan last night? 'Darkness at the break of noon...'. You don't write that sh!t yourself it writes you. The Universal Mind, the collective unconscious, the river Lethe flows through you. The good portion of what Dylan writes is allegorical. Knowing what an allegory is and how it functions is another helpful way to understand any 'song' or 'text'. Listening to a song or text and trying to distill it's true meaning, if such a thing exists, often only begins with the allegory if their is one, add to that the historical, geographical, metaphorical, personal, etymological, philosophical and theological readings and their various permutations and you might begin to crack the depth of a master craftsman such as Dylan.

Compare Dylan to say David Byrne another brilliant songwriter, where Dylan laces his narratives with characters from bygone ages, from his own life, from the sweep and tide of the times, Byrne often uses a visionary sort of poetic as a sort of pointing phenomena- pointing to the beyond, beyond words, beyond mathematics, beyond beyond. Dylan on the other hand while no stranger to metaphor deserves a more exhaustive probing of his depths. This is why he's up for a Nobel Prize for Literature and is studied in universities and colleges the world over. But you knew all that.

Here's the dictionary definition

1a. The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.

b. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby Dick are allegories.

2. A symbolic representation: The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice.

Here's the critic Harold Bloom's amplified definition

from Bloom, Philbrick, Blistein, The Order of Poetry:

Allegory: A narrative poem in which an intellectual (and usually moral, political,or religious meaning) is to be understood beneath a surface story, and indeed to be spelled out and made vivid by that story. In allegory, characters represent concepts, so that conflicts and resolutions among characters result in the statement or modification of abstract doctrine. Allegory succeeds when it satisfies three sets of conditions:

(a) its surface or literal story is interesting and exciting;

( its abstract correlatives are clearly discernible and are consistent in their relationships with the personifications or symbols which represent them in the surface plot; and

© the philosophical thesis thus acted out is of wide applicability to human experience.

Allegory may take various literary forms, but procedure and didacticism of intention are the same in all.

Here's some background (hey who knows you just might learn something)

The love of allegory from a very early period onwards domesticated itself in the English mind, to which there seems to be nothing intrinsically congenial in this species of composition, but which at all times has been singularly tenacious of tastes and tendencies to which it has once given admittance. This particular taste must have been implanted by Christianity by means of the Bible. Paraphrases of the Bible are the chief fruits of the earliest productive age of English poetical literature. The Old and the New Testament were alike composed in eastern tongues; the scenes of their narratives are eastern; certain books of the Bible have always been declared by the church to be allegorical in design; and there are few portions of the holy text that are not full of allegory, parable and symbolism.

[AdamH]

here fu©king here.

[Esau]

Are you hearing yourself? You used the word man and coward again. I have no time for your petty savagery.

Dante's Inferno might be a book read in high school but one could spend one's life and never understand it (being the first of three books of the Divine Comedy). God you're fu©king daft. Did you hear Dylan last night? 'Darkenss at the break of noon...'. You don't write that sh!t yourself it writes you. The Universal Mind, the collective unconscious, the river Lethe flows through you. The good portion of what Dylan writes is allegorical. Knowing what an allegory is and how it functions is another helpful way to understand any 'song' or 'text'. Listening to a song or text and trying to distill it's true meaning, if such a thing exists, often only begins with the allegory if their is one, add to that the historical, geographical, metaphorical, personal, etymological, philosophical and theological readings and their various permutations and you might begin to crack the depth of a master craftsman such as Dylan.

Compare Dylan to say David Byrne another brilliant songwriter, where Dylan laces his narratives with characters from bygone ages, from his own life, from the sweep and tide of the times, Byrne often uses a visionary sort of poetic as a sort of pointing phenomena- pointing to the beyond, beyond words, beyond mathematics, beyond beyond. Dylan on the other hand while no stranger to metaphor deserves a more exhaustive probing of his depths. This is why he's up for a Nobel Prize for Literature and is studied in universities and colleges the world over. But you knew all that.

Here's the dictionary definition

1a. The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.

b. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby Dick are allegories.

2. A symbolic representation: The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice.

Here's the critic Harold Bloom's amplified definition

from Bloom, Philbrick, Blistein, The Order of Poetry:

Allegory: A narrative poem in which an intellectual (and usually moral, political,or religious meaning) is to be understood beneath a surface story, and indeed to be spelled out and made vivid by that story. In allegory, characters represent concepts, so that conflicts and resolutions among characters result in the statement or modification of abstract doctrine. Allegory succeeds when it satisfies three sets of conditions:

(a) its surface or literal story is interesting and exciting;

( its abstract correlatives are clearly discernible and are consistent in their relationships with the personifications or symbols which represent them in the surface plot; and

© the philosophical thesis thus acted out is of wide applicability to human experience.

Allegory may take various literary forms, but procedure and didacticism of intention are the same in all.

Here's some background (hey who knows you just might learn something)

The love of allegory from a very early period onwards domesticated itself in the English mind, to which there seems to be nothing intrinsically congenial in this species of composition, but which at all times has been singularly tenacious of tastes and tendencies to which it has once given admittance. This particular taste must have been implanted by Christianity by means of the Bible. Paraphrases of the Bible are the chief fruits of the earliest productive age of English poetical literature. The Old and the New Testament were alike composed in eastern tongues; the scenes of their narratives are eastern; certain books of the Bible have always been declared by the church to be allegorical in design; and there are few portions of the holy text that are not full of allegory, parable and symbolism.

Wow,you can quote a dictionary.Good show dumbass,like I said only words.But no understanding of the meaning.

As for the rest of your pathetic argument about Dylan,your only telling me things I knew long ago when first introduced to Dylan.(1978 or so)

Now again,I ask you.

Will you meet up and spew the same sh!t with me or will you remain to sh!t talk behind the minimal safety of your computer.

Hows Lois Lane these days?

[SaggyBalls]

it's a bird -it's a plane - no! it's SUPERNERD!!

[zero]

HOLY FAWK you are a twisted sunofabitch. How blind are you? If all I had was the command of a dictionary these posts would have read like this

Dylan's cogititation on the versimilitude of themes relating to the cogency of life and death beyond the parameters of ordinary speech belies his contribution to the ages.

Now that is just fu©king gobbledygook- and heartless at that. Much scholarship incidentally reads that way and if your profs try to pull that sh!t on you call them on it. What informs my understanding of literature is not having boned up on the dictionary bonehead it's boning up on Western Civilization. I guess I can't fault you because we were born with different gifts and had different opportunities to educate ourselves. Still you are reacting almost entirely out of violent pride. We'll leave it to others to decide whose hubris is more ill-fated. I highly doubt that you understand Mr. Dylan as well as you think you do just based on this exchange. You may have had similar thoughts in '78 but that leaves 26 years of brain fry up to the present. Wait I'm confused you understood allegory and it's implications in the literatures of the west when you were like 9 years old or something- sh!t you really are THE MAN. This is pointless. I don't know what I expected.

[Esau]

LOL,just as I thought.

Now again,I ask you.

Will you meet up and spew the same sh!t with me or will you remain to sh!t talk behind the minimal safety of your computer.

Hows Lois Lane these days?

Seriously,why can't you be a stand up person?

[zero]

Is this all you're obsessed about Greg Risko? Is you're manly manliness offended by what you perceive to be my (presumably feminine) pussy pussiness. I am not going to put myself in a situation where you and I get in a screaming match/ slash fight if that's what you're asking. That would not only the worst thing for me physically, mentally or otherwise it would simply be useless. You are trying to bait me into something I will never give you the satisfaction of. Don't get me wrong in a lot of ways I would love to but I just cannot allow myself to go there. I have intentionally missed a number of Hamilton shows lately at the thought of even having to see your violent and bitter on the inside hippy dippy on the outside M & M fu©king ass. This is over. Take the last word. Take the next last word and take your sham humanity with you.

[Esau]

LOL

I've never been a hippy buddy....

Let me ask you then,why would you make these threats if you had no intention of ever following through?

And you can take your sham illness with you,too funny.

[boogieknight]

Esau= most solid and kind hearted brother I've met.

zero you are a piece of sh!t, a rat and two faced kiss ass. i could care less what you think of me or say about me. unlike you i do not need the attention of this message board to make my life have meaning. I'm sorry that you mommy never loved you but stop asking some one else to solve your problems. they're your problems and only you can help your self.

just leave this place like you said you were

you are a waste of time.

over and out.

? why? ::

i believe this might be the reason...........

Eric you're a pathetic human being and an even bigger drug addict then I am (which is saying something). You represent much of what makes this scene so deplorable and yet you have no insight into yourself and your complicity. I couldn't give two shits because you will always be some sh!t ass road manager if you're lucky and I'll have a hundred dicks like you working for me. I know how that sounds but I have worked a HELL OF A LOT harder than you on my education, network, negotiation and communication skills and you're my bitch. You will never see a stitch of work from me (not that you'd want it) and moreover you are explicitly not welcome at any event or festival of mine. If you purchase a ticket it will be rewarded at point of entry.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

hope everybody has a wonderful monday night!!! :: ::

[boogieknight]

hope everybody has a wonderful monday night!!! :: ::

agreed :: :: :: (i have more grins than you.... )

[Jay Funk Dawg]

Kevin Breit playing tonight?