snarfmaster C Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I somewhat agree with you bokonon... The government collects ridiculous taxes from the packs of smokes sold... When people bitch about health care costs associated with smoking, I often cite the increase of the price of cigarettes... Do people really think that the cost of growing tobacco has risen? No, the government is collecting LARGE off of tobacco sales... I'm not saying that justifies selling tobacco to the masses, in fact, I'm saying the opposite. Why not suck it up, quit selling us these "death sticks", and deal with the extra costs... Because cigarettes pay for A LOT more than just the health costs of smokers, it's paying for the health costs of non-smokers too... And health care is so fragile at the moment that losing those tobacco dollars could be the "make or break" for the Canadian health care system these days... I strongly disagree with that. there's no way the health care needs of all the smokers and second-hand smokers in our country are covered by cigarette tax. think about it - smoking gives you serious life threatening illnesses. treatment costs are huge, and that's on top of the cost of just the space and staff each smoker takes up in the hospitals. now, i don't think banning smoking would be 'beneficial' (in a budgetary sense) in the short-term - giving up the tax$$ when we still have a whole generation of addicts whose health hasn't rapidly deteriorated *yet*... plus we all know prohibition doesn't work. on a related issue, i think diabetes and obesity are similarly unnecessary burdens on our health care system... and as such i think all junk food and prepared foods high in refined sugars and flours, and artificial ingredients should be taxed HUGE. the healthcare costs of fast food and other convenience and sh!t-food are not even considered! messed up! and here i am paying taxes on all my natural health supplements. bull sh!t. i'd like to see some stupid commercials aimed at showing how messed up popular eating habits are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I strongly disagree with that. there's no way the health care needs of all the smokers and second-hand smokers in our country are covered by cigarette tax. think about it - smoking gives you serious life threatening illnesses. treatment costs are huge, and that's on top of the cost of just the space and staff each smoker takes up in the hospitals.Don't smokers, on average, die younger? There must be some healthcare cost savings there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 The Moose is loose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 To be fair, not all smokers suffer from smoking related diseases... Some people smoke until they're 90 without any serious adverse effects... I'm not saying smoking is good for you. It's horrible for you. I'm just saying that our health care system is in bad shape these days and the taxes collected from cigatette sales are benefitting everyone, not just smokers... Take away the taxes from cigarettes and see what happens... More privatized medical facilities, no more free ride, etc. The government knows this, and that is why smokes continue to go up in price. It's a quick fix to a long term problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokonon Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 all junk food and prepared foods high in refined sugars and flours, and artificial ingredients should be taxed HUGE. the healthcare costs of fast food and other convenience and sh!t-food are not even considered! messed up! and here i am paying taxes on all my natural health supplements. bull sh!t. i'd like to see some stupid commercials aimed at showing how messed up popular eating habits are. good point! absolutely. obesity is something that effects your health all the time too. when you're obese you have way more illnesses than physically fit people and way more often, everything from colds and viruses to linger lasting bone,muscle and joint injuries. that takes a lot of money to treat all of the avoidable complaints many people face because of an unhealthy lifestyle. there definitely should be a sin tax on crap food. it is a huge expense in our society.! right on moose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 main thing I have against such derogative advertising is that probably the worst thing a person can do healthwise is hate themselves for being the way they are... think "smoking is going to kill me!" with the right level of stress for a period of time and it will... particularly preying on groups like the mentally ill and the poor (who already have lots of stress and self loathing over overpriced smokes they can't really afford but they feel help them get through the day)unless you have been living under a rock for the past 20 years you're quite aware of the health risks associated with smoking, you don't need it rammed down your throat on a daily basichave cut down a fair bit on my smoking so its probably not all bad... but it has taken me quite a while though because my personality hates being told what to do so I have been walking around with a chip on my shoulder (was already planning to cut down but then quit quitting out of spite) (ps. - just razzin ya about playin the role of morale majority lately Del... kiddin', keep up the good work bro) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 i just dont like the hypocritical view the govnment has. either BAN smokes or LEGALIZE pot....can't have it both ways...damn man, how is it WRONG for me to smoke a doob, but ok for a smoker to have a smoke... I cant legally smoke inside, outside, anywhere.... so until its like that for cig smokers, i dont have much compassion. i agree w/ del, fu©king make it illegal already....or LEGALIZE pot... unfortunately, i dont see either happening anytime too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 to be fair there should be commercials of people taking dumps in their living rooms or smashing their thermostats to guilt people about cars and factories messing up the environment... people stealing kids toys, food and homes to guilt Bush and other power mad leader's designs... fat people eating big meals in front of starving people to guilt the uber-rich conglomerates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 To be fair, not all smokers suffer from smoking related diseases... Some people smoke until they're 90 without any serious adverse effects errr....where are you getting your facts? No one smokes without health affects. They might not get LUNG CANCER by 80, but they sure have health problems. It's not just your lungs that are affected. Sometimes I see the most absurd image in real life concerning smoking. Yesterday, I was at Ottawa General Hospital, and when I was walking by the smoking area (far from the main entrance) in the freeing cold, there was a lady in a wheelchair smoking a cigarette. I have no idea why she was in a wheelchair, but it was just a really really crazy image to see at a hospital's smoking area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSeasJim Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 to be fair there should be commercials of people taking dumps in their living rooms or smashing their thermostats to guilt people about cars and factories messing up the environment... people stealing kids toys, food and homes to guilt Bush and other power mad leader's designs... fat people eating big meals in front of starving people to guilt the uber-rich conglomerates One thing at a time or we trainwreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 to be fair there should be commercials of people taking dumps in their living rooms or smashing their thermostats to guilt people about cars and factories messing up the environment... people stealing kids toys, food and homes to guilt Bush and other power mad leader's designs... fat people eating big meals in front of starving people to guilt the uber-rich conglomerates One thing at a time or we trainwreck. I was just about to quote and post that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I made a choice to be vegan as I think harvesting living animals is wrong, terrible for the planet we all live on and that eating them is bad for people's health... my choice, I don't try to shove it down other people throats... I think it'd be wrong for there to be ridiculously overblown commercials and grotesque warnings on every food containing animal products to bombard people with guilt to get them to adhere to my beliefsas a smoker I've never had a problem keeping my cigarettes away from non-smokers if they're uncomfortable with it... if a non-smoker comes to a smoking bar thats their choice as its obviously worth it to them for some reason... same as I put up with living in a city with all its noise and toxic fumes as there are things here that I appreciate having access tojust saying that the bullsh!t propaganda method doesn't seem like the right way to sway public opinion to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Before I add further to this discussion, let me mull over the response from a smoking vegan for a second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 freedom to be an individual, can't beat it (though they're trying) didn't say I was a health nut, just someone with sympathy for animals whom I feel have hearts and minds... getting healthier after cutting out the animal products was more of a suprise than a goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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