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Joan
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That was probably the most offensive post Ive read on this board and there have been many... take that crap elsewhere "Satan"... Im not a practicing Catholic in any way but this man definitely brought peace and love to this world... for this I definitely thank him... Rest In Eternal Peace Pope John Paul...

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cheers to the pope, don't know for sure but think he tried to do what he believed in... not my thing but I think he honestly hoped better for the world... died less obscure than most of us will likey have claim to (ps. Wassabi's kickin ass... beautiful... don't miss out!)

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Im gonna take Low Roller's approach to this thread and hopefully put it to bed.... its funny how when you are young you are so invincible so to speak that organized religion means nothing to you but as you get older you tend to look for a little more... and gator what does someone taking personal offence to this have to do with going to spend time in Church? Are opinions not recognized anymore? My opinion of this is very poor taste and very inappropriate... Why not take some time and watch some of the biographies on the Pope that are being shown on TV now to understand just how great a man he was.. How he dealt with the evils of communism in Poland, USSR and Germany?

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My apologies for being offensive, but how's this for offensive:

Against abortion, against gay rights, against women in church, against birth control, etc.

He struggled to keep the world in the 13th century and in some ways, he won.

The Pope is the Governor General of the Catholic Church.

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I agree with you Velvet.

HE was progressive in many ways, being accepting and respectful of all religions and races, but The Pope's archaic beliefs regarding birth control ( especially damaging to the grossly over-populated Catholic-dominated South America ), homosexuality and women's rights cannot be wiped under the rug.

The Pope had a lot of great in him, but his flaws cannot be ignored or forgotten.

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thanks Jaimoe and Velvet for your words/ideas unclouded by sentimentality. While everyone can probably agree that it's in poor taste to laugh at/celebrate someone's demise, I can find it equally repungnant how (famous) people upon their deaths are lionized, their omissions and commissions swept away/ignored. (The same thing was done to Ronald Regan upon his death.) I just think we need to be careful about maudlin sentimentality because it can close down our rational faculties.

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I think JPII will have taken a lot more flak posthumously than Mother Teresa, although they held an awful lot on common, theologically and socially. Christopher Hitchens caught all sorts of sh!t when he wrote a book criticising her for, among other things, her positions on reproductive rights (Calcutta needs more orphans?), and all the dodgy funding sources she had over the years (including people from the Savings and Loans scandal), because, well, she's perfectly good, in the same abstract way that Saddam Hussein is perfectly evil, y'know (why do we seem to need these abstractions?)? JPII, on the other hand, could take his lumps, as well he should; the guy was no slouch, even if he did seem to hire from the same pool of interpreters as Stephen Hawking by the end. I'm glad that the RC Church has - at least since the 1960s - been open to the idea of reasoned and reasonable dialogue, even if there are so many roadblocks to reform, and stubborn people on the inside track (his holiness included).

On another note, at least Catholics and Deadheads now have something in common (including the sometimes gratuitous lionisation of their departed leaders).

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