Sex is the Same as it was

[paisley]

I can remember when the air was clean and sex was dirty.

- George Burns (1896 - 1996)

[d_rawk]

If elected, Tory leader Stephen Harper has promised to introduce new legislation reverting marriage to the exclusive domain of opposite-sex couples

Oh, lovely. That's just what we need - for this to become a platform issue in the next election. And the return of folks misguidedly and naively demanding a national referendum on the issue (or worse: treating a federal election as if it were a single-issue referendum), as though subjecting a minority rights issue to the whims and fancy of the majority is somehow an appropriate way to conduct affairs in a liberal democracy.

A lot of otherwise perfectly good days have been ruined by reading the Letters to the Editor pages lately.

(^-- how come the frowny face no work?)

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I don't even really understand what they're so frightened of. The disintegration of society now that homosexuals can enjoy legally married status!?!??

I don't see where people connect the dots, don't follow the logic at all

People who are that homophobic make me suspect that perhaps they thenselves have homosexual tendencies that they're burying.

It's like those people who call homosexuality a "lifestyle choice". If you really believe that then there's not much separating you from even the fiercest of felchers

[bradm]

I'm going to think reasonably to prevent truth decay. I'm against truth decay.

Aloha,

Brad

[Freak By Night]

"Fiercest Of Felchers"

That's a good name for a band.

[Hux]

"The Canadian people will not fall in line regarding this issue just because it passed in parliament through disearnest political means."

Please explain the "disearnest political means"?

"The Liberals have been losing momentum at a frightening pace, and they needed that big win even if it meant making a deal with..."

Actually, it is the Conservatives and Stephen Harper who are slipping in the polls and are losing momentum. I would say the "big win" was the Budget vote of a month ago, this vote wasn't even a confidence motion, defeat wouldn't have sunk the government.

"However if the Liberals' political platform is one that promotes moral decay"

I guess one mans "moral decay" is another's "extending rights"....I sense that your understanding of the evolution of this issue is weak. This issue did not enter the public sphere because the goverment put it there for political reasons to "show strength" or be seen as making a "tough decision" as you assert, far from it. The issue arose from the efforts of Canadians who took this issue to the courts to ensure our marriage laws reflected their equality rights under section 15 of the Charter - and every subsequent court case has affirmed the extension of these rights to civil marriage.

I recommend reading up on how we got to yesterday's vote, cbc has a great section on it here:

Check out the "Canada Timeline" section.

Educate yourself.

[TomFoolery]

Homophobes suck :-)

[Davey Boy 2.0]

"Fiercest Of Felchers"

That's a good name for a band.

I've already booked them to play at my wedding... they may be flamboyant but at least they don't noodle

[bouche]

However if the Liberals' political platform is one that promotes moral decay, then they have lost my vote.

I get a feeling that was a joke. Isn't that what harpsaphobe and his followers are always saying?

"I call on Stephen Harper to shake this off and LEAD us. Show us how a true conservative government will be good for Canada. Show us how a conservative government will stop the moral decay. Show us how a conservative government will unite the people through the values of common sense, of reason and of national pride. Lead us by showing us that you are worthy of victory."

from a really crappy site

Edited June 29, 2005 by Guest

[bouche]

geez...those idiots on Freedominion.ca make me wonder what planet they're on.

They can't wait for a priest to get arrested for refusing to perform a same-sex marriage. Get a life!

from another really stupid site

"Personally, I think we should pray for and encourage a really good and well known pastor or priest to get charged or sued and for it to happen soon. We might as well pick the time, place and person for this battle that is bound to happen."

[Guest Low Roller]

Whoa. That's a lot of ground to cover to defend my position... hmm... Ok, let me retract the 'moral decay' statement, that may have been harsh, but it does accurately represent what my feelings are. I was raised Catholic, and proud of it. Am I not entitled to state my opinion?

It seems I also triggered some calls of homophobia. Davey Boy also mentioned something, but then again, homosexuality is his favorite topic:

"What's for dinner?"

"Gay toast, if you know what I mean."

If those comments were directed at me (which is easy to infer), I want to state that I am not afraid of gays, I don't hate gays, but I also don't accept them as readily as someone else might because they go against my core values and the values of my Forefathers. I believe in upholding tradition.

I hope that at least everyone sees the annual freak show that is the Pride Parade in Toronto as a black eye on the entire cause. I was disgusted by some of the things I saw on TV.

[secondtube]

two years ago, i went to the pride parade with my cousin, who outted herself, even though her family was quite against it...

it was one of the best times i had in my life...i've never been so accepted for simply being straight!!! they didn't pretend they were better than me, i dont understand why straight people 'think' they are better than a gay person.

they (for the most part) were fun loving humans, that had better values that most people i meet on an average night out at the bar.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Guest

[meggo]

I want to state that I am not afraid of gays, I don't hate gays, but I also don't accept them as readily as someone else might because they go against my core values and the values of my Forefathers. I believe in upholding tradition.

i'm curious about which of your core values homosexuals go against. i want to clarify that none of this is meant as an attack, i just really really don't understand where people are coming from on the other side.

also - upholding tradition? just for the sake of tradition? being a tradition in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean it should be carried on, does it?

[MarcO]

Of course you can express your opinion Low Roller, please keep 'em coming. Let's talk this out.

I respect your thoughtful defence of your positions and I also hope that the political outlets that represent them continue to fail miserably.

My only thought on the TO Pride Parade is that I am extremely sorry I missed it this year.

[Jaimoe]

I hope that at least everyone sees the annual freak show that is the Pride Parade in Toronto as a black eye on the entire cause. I was disgusted by some of the things I saw on TV.

It's refreshing that you're not prone to generalizing.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Hey Lowroller, I wasn't actually directing my comments at you, only at homophobes, which for me means intolerance... I don't think of you as being intolerant.

At the same time I hope we agree to disagree (especially about the Pride Parade- looks like a party to me) about gay rights, as I said I don't see why people feel threatened by equal rights.

[Guest Low Roller]

Well maybe the media in the UK only focused on the negative and deviant aspects of the Pride Parade, but I saw dudes doing things that just out-right revolted me. I ain't talking just kissing either. I don't want to see Canada be mocked internationally because of this move.

As far as tradition goes, the best reason to uphold it is because it is tradition. It's what my parents did, what my grandparents did, and I'd like to think that there is some wisdom in things that are passed down through generations. Having never known my Grandparents, the best way I can feel close to them is to try and live with the beliefs they lived with.

I also never said that homosexuals were bad people. Far from it. One of my former flatmates was gay, and the biggest repproach I had against him was that he was a messy slob, not that he was taking it up the chuffer.

It all goes back to the core teaching of Christianity: Adam and Eve. If man was meant to be with another man, then don't you think they'd be called Adam and Steve?

[Hux]

but I also don't accept them as readily as someone else might because they go against my core values and the values of my Forefathers. I believe in upholding tradition.

I hope that at least everyone sees the annual freak show that is the Pride Parade in Toronto as a black eye on the entire cause. I was disgusted by some of the things I saw on TV.

<>

[Freak By Night]

Low_Roller - are you playing devil's advocate?

[d_rawk]

Am I not entitled to state my opinion?

Absolutely. And despite it being an unpopular one, hopefully everyone here will discuss it respectfully.

My concern is that in your initial post - as Hux has already pointed out - you seem to have misconstrued (IMO) the bill as a politically motivated one. This trajectory was already set by the charter, the nature of federal "ownership" of civil marriage, the courts, and a Canadian commitment to the values of equality - regardless of whatever accolades or scorn the Liberal Party of Canada may be receiving for having written the specific legislation itself.

ie: bound to happen eventually, regardless of governing party, unless we are to open the country up for another constitutional crisis. (This is not to downplay the work the Liberal Party has done to put together a well-written bill or to see C-38 pass before the house recessed, which was admirable).

[Jaimoe]

The Pride Parade was considerably tamer this year compared to parades of the past. One participant when asked why the parade lacked the usual shocks and outrageousness said, and I paraphrase: We don't need to shock people anymore because the country has become more accepting of gay life.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

As far as tradition goes, the best reason to uphold it is because it is tradition. It's what my parents did, what my grandparents did, and I'd like to think that there is some wisdom in things that are passed down through generations. Having never known my Grandparents, the best way I can feel close to them is to try and live with the beliefs they lived with.

that seems like a kind of cop-out to me. i appreciate your wanting to feel ties to your grandparents and all, but to blindly follow for that reason alone seems like you're avoiding thinking for yourself

[Kaidy Mae]

It all goes back to the core teaching of Christianity: Adam and Eve. If man was meant to be with another man, then don't you think they'd be called Adam and Steve?

*insert eye rolling smiley*

Lamest statement that I've ever commented on.

[Jaimoe]

My late father and his parents and my mother's dead parents would not approve of the Pride Parade, but I do, warts and all.

[Guest Low Roller]

It all goes back to the core teaching of Christianity: Adam and Eve. If man was meant to be with another man' date=' then don't you think they'd be called Adam and Steve?

[/quote']

*insert eye rolling smiley*

Lamest statement that I've ever commented on.

That was, of course, a joke on my part. Can't say the timing was the best with my back against the wall in this thread.