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Browsing around the web, killing time at work. WorkingTV has an animated version of Tommy Douglas' famous "mouseland" speech (Wikipedia Entry), introduced by Keifer Sutherland.

mouseland (6 min. 37 sec) (Windows Media Format)

The wikipedia article points out the similarity with a section of Douglas Adams' So Long And Thanks For All The Fish:

‘On [the robot’s] world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.’â€

‘Odd,’ said Arthur, ‘I thought you said it was a democracy.’

‘I did,’ said Ford, ‘It is.’

‘So,’ said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, ‘why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?’

‘It honestly doesn’t occur to them,’ said Ford. ‘They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.’

‘You mean they actually vote for the lizards?’

‘Oh yes,’ said Ford with a shrug, ‘of course.’

‘But,’ said Arthur, going for the big one again, ‘why?’

‘Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,’ said Ford, ‘the wrong lizard might get in’

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The National on CBC did a 'Green Party Primer' segment last night.

Tonight (Wed. Dec 14th), they will be doing a Q&A session with Green Party leader Jim Harris. Since they won't be included in the debates this time around, it is worth watching if you're interested in the Green platform.

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The National on CBC did a 'Green Party Primer' segment last night.

Tonight (Wed. Dec 14th), they will be doing a Q&A session with Green Party leader Jim Harris. Since they won't be included in the debates this time around, it is worth watching if you're interested in the Green platform.

i've known a couple people who shared polkaroo's friend's story about disorganization in the green party. having said that, i have been voting for them in the hope that they would land enough popular support to get federal funding and actually get it together as a political party...

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No chance the Greeners should be included in the debate. I don't even think the Bloc should get a voice there. In the debate format all parties are supposed to get equal time. In the last election I found myself flipping channels when Duceppe had the floor - I can't imagine what Jim Harris would add, he'd jsut take time away from the real meat of the TV show. Bloc and Green run on one platform...no need to hear their opinions on the actual issues.

Maybe an environment specific debate would be a good idea if Harris wants to get his two cents in.

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That add is not negative at all (the one that was posted video link). Its the truth. If I vote this year I might vote for the NDP, but they will get in from my riding anyway. I like thier workers rights stance (Ya 5% Mother Fu%kers--AD knows what im talkin bout). Im a proud non voter though. The parlimentry process in Canada is the least democratic of any established western nation. politicians vote along party lines instead of what theier riding wants. And in a majority government, the democratic process is non existant. Remember, just because you vote every 4 years does not make it a democracy, and voting every 4 years does not make you part of the democratic process.

(this is not necessarilly in response to Dr-evil, just cant figure out how to add a comment without calling anyone out.)

Edited by Guest
The Bus Came by......
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No chance the Greeners should be included in the debate. I don't even think the Bloc should get a voice there. In the debate format all parties are supposed to get equal time. In the last election I found myself flipping channels when Duceppe had the floor - I can't imagine what Jim Harris would add, he'd jsut take time away from the real meat of the TV show. Bloc and Green run on one platform...no need to hear their opinions on the actual issues.

Maybe an environment specific debate would be a good idea if Harris wants to get his two cents in.

That being said - Duceppe did put forth the most social democratic policy of any of the leaders... (if we could just lost the other crap).

Where you been anyways MK?

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Really? I thought Duceppe cleaned house in both the english and french debates last time. I expect him to do the same this time around, although I don't think it matters a hoot outside of Quebec.

Interesting.

Yes, very interesting. My question is why does the strongest leadership come from what the rest of Canada would consider: "the most dysfunctional party."?

History has always had a special place for strong leaders... I expect big things to change soon in Canadian politics.

BTW, WTF is with the new Toronto city powers?!... it's like we just became our own country... bout time. Psycologically it's been that way for a while.

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Sounds like you're discounting their ideas before even hearing them... I don't know their platform now' date=' but i'd like to hear it, and hear it debated alongside the others.

if the bloc can get in the debate, the greens definitely should

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I am discounting them without hearing the specifics of their platform. The reason is they are redundant and a poorly used resource IMO. My understanding is they originally were a 1 issue party, but have moved away from that. Great. But if they are taking other issues seriously, then why would they not attempt to join and influence the left wing party that has at least an iota of making a difference.

Mind you the same can be said about NDPs moving to the Liberal party, and it happens quite a lot (e.g. Trudeau and the current Health Minister) but the difference is a) the Liberals are much much further to the right (I know all the liberals are going to bite back here - but face it, its true) and B) the NDP do have a presence which the Green do not.

However, if the Green was truly concerned with having their voice heard, and the environment brought to the forefront they would throw their what 1 or 2% (or was it 4%?) of votes behind the NDP to boost them from 16% or 20% to 20-24%.

And keep in mind the fact that the NDP ALWAY have a much higher proportion of the popular vote then they do seats. I'm not a stats man, and could be wrong, but to me this means that they get quite close in a lot of ridings. The Green vote may be enough to push them over the hump. It may also mean that more people see the NDP as a viable alternative instead of voting Liberal to keep the PCs out. If not now then by the next election.

And for the record - I believe at the current time that Canada is best served with a Liberal Minority and a strong NDP balance of power. At the current time that is.

So yes, I am discounting the Greens without hearing about their platform. And I feel entirely justified in doing so.

Greens should be in too, no doubt!!! It's all about fragmentation... just think how boring the NHL would be with only three teams... Or if Elections were akin to The best team from the NFL having to play the best team from the NHL... and the Championship game was the only thing on CNN.

Welcome to 20th centruy politics, hope the 21st is better, been an interesting start to say the least.

~W

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I like the NHL comparison...but I'm thinking that including the Bloc and the Greenies in the debate would be more like having one team with five lines that get equal playing time. Three of the lines would be all-star caliber and the other two would just dive on the puck or flip it into the crowd whenever they got their hands on it. No doubt the game would suffer with all the delays.

Where you been anyways MK?

I was offline for a long time and spent my summer at more baseball games than concerts...interest in jam music is kind of waning to tell you the truth.

I finally got a permanent job in London so that's where I'm at....shoot me an email if you're ever checking out a show in town...maybe Metric in February???

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I like the NHL comparison...but I'm thinking that including the Bloc and the Greenies in the debate would be more like having one team with five lines that get equal playing time. Three of the lines would be all-star caliber and the other two would just dive on the puck or flip it into the crowd whenever they got their hands on it. No doubt the game would suffer with all the delays.

[

Okay then, response time, or the number of direct questions/retorts are limited to the percentage of popular votes... visually it's important to undertand there's more than just three parties... and the smaller parties usually grow around a single issue, or a narrow group of issues, so if they could get on TV and just say "We believe in x" if only to hear what the big three say in direct response to it. Then you can have your top line play most of the game, but in the world political league, to succeed I think you need a deep team. Like the Sens :P, or a Canadian Poltical conscious that is as aware of the fringe party as the main contenders.

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History has always had a special place for strong leaders... I expect big things to change soon in Canadian politics.

Do you mean in regard to Quebec, or something else?

That is wild about Toronto's new powers. I didn't know what you meant until I ran across a couple articles this morning. I wonder if this will be good for the city, or a way for the province to withhold money and say 'hey, raise it yourself ... you're all grown up now'?

Anyone watch the Green Party thing last night? Harris did well in my opinion. One thing that irked me though was that he seemed to dodge discussion of tax shifting, especially where it would have required him to talk about raising gas taxes. I'd like to see him promoting the more unique/innovative ideas that the party has, rather than trying to hide them.

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I wish Utah Phillips were Canadian; then I'd be voting for the Sloth and Indolence Party.

Mark Twain said, "Those of you who are inclined to worry have the widest selection in history." Why complain? Try to do something about it - you know, it's [been] goin' on nine months now, since I decided that I was gonna declare that I am a candidate for the presidency of the United States. Oh yes, I'm going to run.

Shopped around for a party... Well, I looked at the Republicans. Decided talking to a conservative is like talking to your refrigerator. You know, the light goes on, the light goes off, it's not gonna do anything that isn't built into it. But I'm not gonna talk to a conservative any more than I talk to my damn refrigerator.

Working for the Democratic party, now, that's kind of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...

So I created my own party: it's called the Sloth and Indolence Party. I'm running as an anarchist candidate in the best sense of that word. I've studied the presidency carefully. I have seen that our best presidents were the do-nothing presidents: Millard Fillmore, Warren G. Harding. When you have a president who does things we are all in serious trouble. If he does anything at all: if he gets up at night to go to the bathroom, somehow, mystically, trouble will ensue.

I guarantee that if I am elected, I will take over the White House, hang out, shoot pool, scratch my ass, and not do a damn thing.

Which is to say: if you want something done, don't come to me do it for you, you gotta get together and figure out how to do it yourselves. Is that a deal?

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The CPM/L has some of the best party literature going! And hey, if you can figure out a way to capture the Agnostic/Apathetic vote (though the apathy makes it a tough one) you'll be a shoe-in for endless majority governments ;)

So the NDP officially announced the nomination of former Governor General and former Premier of Manitoba Ed Schreyer today. He will be running in the Selkirk-Interlake riding in Winnipeg.

I listened to his press conference today, and it was fantastic. I wish I could find a transcript. He made some strong points about the power of the PMO destroying the ability of parliament to function, and damned the increasing tendency to allow the position of Prime Minister to be used as a virtual presidency.

It is something of a crisis for the NDP, though. This is a man who once referred to homosexuality as an "affliction", and an "abnormal tendency" that "if allowed to become too visible in society, cannot help but have a negative and detrimental effect on the younger generation."

That was back in '87, in response to an ammendment to the Manitoba Human Rights Code outlawing discrimination based on sexual orientation. Awesome as he is in every other way, if he doesn't make it clear (convincingly) that he no longer feels that way, the party is going to eat him alive.

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Hehe. Yeah. In fairness to Harper, though, he said it intending to be funny.

Let's take the New Democratic Party, the NDP, which won twenty-one seats. The NDP could be described as basically a party of liberal Democrats, but it's actually worse than that, I have to say. And forgive me jesting again, but the NDP is kind of proof that the Devil lives and interferes in the affairs of men.

This party believes not just in large government and in massive redistributive programs, it's explicitly socialist. On social value issues, it believes the opposite on just about everything that anybody in this room believes. I think that's a pretty safe bet on all social-value kinds of questions.

Some people point out that there is a small element of clergy in the NDP. Yes, this is true. But these are clergy who, while very committed to the church, believe that it made a historic error in adopting Christian theology.

The NDP is also explicitly a branch of the Canadian Labor Congress, which is by far our largest labor group, and explicitly radical.

There are some moderate and conservative labor organizations. They don't belong to that particular organization.

- Harper, 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy

No doubt that there are those out there who believe as much literally though. I've met them too :(

The third bit (about the clergy) struck me as particularly clever, although it does sort of betray the tendency of the religious right to think that they have a monopoly on religious 'values'. In my view, the most powerful response to the religious right isn't the secular humanists, but the religious left. Who are normally left out of discussion as though they didn't exist.

I suspect that he might have actually meant the 'socialist' bit, though. Which is funny for a whole lot of different reasons, chief among them that the contemporary NDP - and Jack Layton - are decidedly not socialist. (much to the chagrin of the old guard who feel that being a social democrat is a cop-out. But they have their echo-chamber in the socialist caucus of the NDP to endlessly air their grievances to each other)

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This gives me ample justification for being against Harper: either he meant what he said about the NDP and the Devil literally, in which case I'm against him, or he was really jesting, in which case I'm against him, because I wouldn't want Canada's leader to have such a crappy sense of humour.

Aloha,

Brad

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History has always had a special place for strong leaders... I expect big things to change soon in Canadian politics.

Do you mean in regard to Quebec, or something else?

I meant in regards to Quebec... I support the Bloc Movement... I think they have every right to complain at this point, and the way every single Federal Government has just thrown money at the problem and pandering to the Province hasn't helped. I think the quickest way to fix the problem is to allow them more Autonomy, kind of like what Toronto just got, but with that special Quebec flavour we all grown to love/hate. But no, we have to be stubborn, and keep throwing gas on the fire instead of just listening and respecting and accomodating. It's no wonder there are gumblings from Alberta and BC that they want to leave, and Northern Ontario forming it's own government to deal with the poor governance from Queens Park... nevermind what Vermont wants to do... I mean it's the wave of the future. Oh yeah, don't forget about the signiffigance of Nunuvut, or even what happened in Russia, or the Raptors... break it down before you build it back up... strong foundation is like a boat of concrete in a sea of dirt. (ed... sorry bout the tangets, just wanted to add some flavours)

Consider this... there are as many people living in Toronto now as there were in all of Canada at the first world war. Perhaps a Federalist Government could handle a smaller population, but with current dynamics things are really dysfunctional (four 'power' parties for so many distinct places: city, country, Prarie, Ocean, resources, French, English, Native, Immigrants). It's time the Feds and the Provinces started handing down powers... perhaps this in itself will apise Quebec, but I don't think so... the time's they are a changing.

I mean there not going to build a wall, and I love the Quebecois, and they love us, just not politically... And as an individual, who am I to say no to nurtuing their culture. "Canadians" Do it all the time. Where's one to draw the line to say one form of Nationalist Propaghanda is wrong, and one is right when nobody is really get hurt except for pride. The politics in Quebec are different, because the culture is signifficantly different, therefore, they should have more say it what rules they are governed by... unless of course they are evil.

That's my opinion, and I stand by it, atleast until I see more bridge building, and less mud slinging.

Actually, I think the Bloc has garnered a signifficant amount of respect in the house in terms of their professionalism, dilligence, and hard work, a far cry from the fund hungry, wild spending Bloc which first entered the house a couple of decades ago.... The roads in Montreal are slowly getting better, and those speed traps on the highways!!! Nice!

Just think what would happen if they started debating how they would devide Quebec so that Canada could keep its continuity with the East coast, and dividing up the system. I mean we HAVE to have this debate. It's the only way the Bloc will ever change their minds and say, "hey maybe we can work together." Until then it's stalemate... or referendum... or guns. But I never think it'll get to that last one.

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I agree with most of what you say. And I dig the tangents :)

Especially the last bit, about needing to have the conversation. I think that is crucial. Let's put it on the table, let's talk about what we would actually do and each be prepared to accept. Fuck this negotiating in the dark business. A little honesty and frankness would go a long way towards making some progress instead of the same-old, same-old. Each 'yes' vote in referenda is a 'yes' vote for something different than the other ... nobody has a very clear idea what anybody is talking about. Let's talk about it openly and frankly. In Quebec and out.

Hell yeah.

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