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Alexis Newbie

Alexis

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ok...in all honesty, the liberals could have gotten my vote. i don't agree with any party entirely. the NDP could have kept my vote if they dropped fucking national daycare from their platform. the liberals could have taken my vote if even one of them (particularly the one in my riding) said "hey, the sponsorship scandal happened, this is how it happened, this is how it's being dealt with, so that it won't happen again" instead of what i heard which was "i didn't do it! let's move on"

there are things i don't like about the conservatives, particularly how they SEEM like they MIGHT mix religion with politics. but i don't know if they will or not. in my eyes, church and state are seperate, if i wanted to live in a country that was run on religious ideals, i'd move. i'm also counting on the opposition to keep them from doing that. And who am I to say that because a person has religious beliefs of any kind they shouldn't hold an elected position? if i believed that they shouldn't, then no muslim should be allowed to run, or heaven forbid win...they'll twist our laws with hatred for women and blah blah blah...it's BS. HOPEFULLY (and i KNOW this isn't the case with all christians, no matter what sect) they'll "walk with christ in their hearts" and do as he would do.

i don't think the conservatives have it right, but i agree with most of the things they stand for and say they'll do, and the thigns i don't agree with, i don't think the political climate in canada, or the opposition will allow.

edited for: clarity

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secondtube Newbie

secondtube

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just a simple question.

do u think people who support/are voting conservative are embarrased to admit it?

Why?

Well, on Hamilton Mountain, i've seen THREE (yes, only 3) blue signs, by far (at least triple the next) i see support for Chris Charlton (NDP), second is lib.

But the polls for our area show Blue in the lead by almost 15%, then Lib, then NDP.

Exactly opposite of what it seems to be, according to signs. So, are the people voting blue scared to show any support?

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Birdy Newbie

Birdy

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i think the hammer has always been pretty left hasn't it? it all stems from the geographic area. places are historically conservative, liberal or NDP. like windsor/leamington has always been left, chatham has been pretty middle ground electing liberals sometimes, PC's the next. towns with a lot of industry (ie, hamilton) would tend to the left i'd guess. unions.. you know.

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Alexis Newbie

Alexis

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just a simple question.

do u think people who support/are voting conservative are embarrased to admit it?

Why?

Well, on Hamilton Mountain, i've seen THREE (yes, only 3) blue signs, by far (at least triple the next) i see support for Chris Charlton (NDP), second is lib.

But the polls for our area show Blue in the lead by almost 15%, then Lib, then NDP.

Exactly opposite of what it seems to be, according to signs. So, are the people voting blue scared to show any support?

embarassed? no, scared? yes. i don't judge others on their political beliefs, i can compartmentalize, but i know a lot of other people can't.

with the way the cons are viewed as the devil, if you support them, you either believe in the devil or are one of his minions

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SmoothedShredder Newbie

SmoothedShredder

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I'd say I'm voting because I want what I think is the best choice for the country. I dislike a Federalist system who signs free-trade agreements, but does nothing to make it work, re: soft wood lumber, border issues (in my industry: why musicial acts are so often refused entry into the country, and why our small developing acts have to cross so much red tape just to be allowed to play a measely 3 shows per application to a max of 12 a year in the States... I'm not so much worried about the Tragically Hips and Nickle backs as I am about the SoOn acts who cannot hit up Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, and Vemont with any regularity even though geographically they are 1/10th the distace to travel to as Manitoba or the Maritimes).

I think there are some fundamental issues at the core of the Fedearlist system, stuck between a need for a more Globalist government (will the real United Nations please stand up) currently stalled by the emperic methods being used by and economically destroying our brash neighbours to the South... but when I peel away the layers... I find that most of the shit left on the ground is beuracratic tape. I mean if Gomry is such a BIG deal, how long would it take to wrap up and admit ownership of guilt if the Government did some REALLY bad?! We know now what the Libeals would do. It's not about what it costs... it's about what you do/did.

What party is best suited for getting rid of this crap? The conservatives. The Liberals made this mess, and are currently wallowing in it... not saying anything about the other parites, but the solution is NOT getting rid of the Not Withstading clause, the solution is NOT banning handguns... the Solultions will be found past these ideas at a more fundamental level. It's the Libearls "buracracy" which has bred this politcal culture of corruption and hate... I'd say give the NDP a chance if they would provide a feisable solution instead of just bitching all the time, and the mess is so bad at the top, I think we need to get the guys with the chainsaws to come in and get a choppin. And PLEASE stop hating on the Bloc... You're are not making things any better... To boldly paint the Bloc as a Government who is based ONLY on separating. They are not, sure they fucked up under Parizeau when they neglected their civics (roads especially), but they have contiued to get re-elected in Quebec becasue fundamentally they REALLY do care about their constituants, and have become far better beruacrats over the last decade or so as Jean Charet can attest, and Paul Martin contuines to keep his head in the sand about (while his minions continue to spread the hate). I mean, how can a country champion Immigrant rights when they can't even work with the ones who came over here with them in the first place... Immigrants love Canada because they really wanted to leave where they were... but after a while they might get suspicious when we have such a hate-on for the Fracaphone cultre. (Ladies and Gentlemen, the GUN ISSUE just walked back into the room). And another thing... everyone hates on the Conservatives for being so religous... but most of the Immigrants who are coming to Canada are also very religous, but no one seems to hold it against them... I think this is a blatant hypocracy by the critics who use MP's religous freedoms against them, then travel down to the local mosque to woo some votes.

As far as the handgun thing: It's gang mentality... and mentality bred out of a subculture which has flourished in the United States (bling bling)... if we want to affect this to a positive change, we better start having a better dialogue with our neighbours to the South. GWB or not. And banning handguns... why don't you just make marijana illegal? Geez.

And say what you will about how scarry it is that the Right wing Conservatives are so religous, and how they hate minorities/immigrants, and how certain members are outspoken about pro-life, and about not entrenching Gay Marrige as legitimate in the eyes of the law...

I'd still rather have a party that allows it's memebers to speak its mind instead of muzzling them like Chretien and Martin did ala Carolyn Parish... BTW the Hitler references are disgusting, and it's 'hate' like that that would keep someone from openly professing their allegance with the Conservatives... even/especially on their lawns. Enjoy the giddy feeling of pleding allegance to the party with the most visible advertizing and all that comes with it, I think though there's a quiet confidence for the long time conservatives at this point.

At the end of the day I do not fear that these views will somehow lead us to the wrong party, cause as much as these 'crazy' formereformers have their views, I seriously doubt that they will drastically change Canada into a less-secular society. It's still a democracy... and I relish to see what the Conservatives could achieve in a Minority government (it even made the Liberals stand up a little more, though clearly has worn down their Senior memeber). If there's one thing at the core of the Conservative priciple is that "Government should work at minimizing their influence of their citizens..."

Which to me means:

Dont send me to war

Let me pay less tax

Let me earn a living so I can pay my own way to survive...

Let me learn what I want to learn in school...

Let me choose what I do with my body.

I'm not certain that every member in the Government has a firm grasp of these issues... but that's not their job... their job is beuracractic, and to listen to and support citizens in their constituancy in relation to a Federal/Constitutional mindset... and becasue of things like the Supreme court AND the Notwithstanding clause issues surrounding Gay Marriage, and Abortion, Religon (and the freedom to practice it, or have we forgotten this?) and Language/Culture issues will play out slowly (and conservatively) in a civil and buracratic fashion. If you don't like that a member has a contray view point on a hot button issue, it's one thing to spout off how much you hate them, but then nothing will ever change... you'll never get them to actually sit across the table from you a listen that way. And you are pretty naieve then to think that there aren't huge numbers of constituants that share that view, and pouting isn't going to change their minds... you got to get out there and show them your alternative is better. You have to change the minds of the thousands of people who think the same way as those they choose to represent them. You can spout hate to the choir... making us all crustier for the experience... or you can buckle up you saddle, and head to Alberta and get some real work done. I hate problem people... I love solution people.

The world isn't perfect, which to me suggests there's lots of work to do. Taxes generally go towards schools, hospitals, and roads... the Federal government is solely responsible for facitating the trade of our individual labour to other nation states. The conservatives were way ahead of the game when they passed the freetrade. They put the GST in cause it had to be done (now we have wicked fibreoptics (thanks trade with China and Bell, Nortel, and Rogers) all over this country and the Deficit is shrinking thanks to the Mike Harris Initiative... though Paul Martin takes all the credit). The Liberals got elected decades ago cause of the backlash on these two things: GST and Free Trade. These two things remain, but only Harper says its time to shrink the GST, and it's time to work towards strengthening trade promoting small buisnesses (like some of the bands I promote), ie, making "Freetrade" actually free, and not that American idea of Free which is more like "fear" in my mind, and moving towards a smoother socitey weather you view it through a gloabal, national, provincial, buisness, environmental, or family and well being lens.

Oh and BTW, most of the great things the Federalists had to boast for in the last 20 years are because of the Strength of the two Conservative provinces... what Mike Harris accomplish is streamlining beuracracy in Ontario, Superbuild, and supporting small buisnees (any anti big corperation/fido users in the hizzouse?) and what Alberta has managed to accomplish under Ralph Klein are perhaps the only significant things that have lead to a relative improvement in this nation in the last 20 years (what did Chretien do again?)... (National and Politically Speaking) that have kept this country afloat... and the untapped potential because of our current chilly relations with the South? well, maybe someday.

Anywho, sling all the mud you want... When I vote, I'm voting for the party which has addressed the biggest problem in the system in which it may participate in, and has provided the clearest method for dealing with it. And if you're thinking of Jerry's lesser of two evils quote.. then you're just part of the problem... sit down until you're ready to work. Our welfare state will always be here for you. Everyone in this election means well, we just have different Idea's of how to get there...

I was saying Boo-urns.

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Alexis Newbie

Alexis

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Minister of Citizenship and Immigration – Art Hanger

“Immigrants are choking welfare systems, contributing to high unemployment, and many cannot read.â€

- Conservative MP Art Hanger

BTW, as long as we're talking about immigrants, not refugees, that's all true. we tell engineers to come here, nurses, teachers, come, we need you! we have huge vacancies!

and they pay their fees, they do their paperwork, and they come here. then they get told that their foreign language degree isn't acceptable here, and they'll have to pay 1000's of dollars more in re educationg themselves on things they already know to be hired here. which takes months or years. what do they do in the mean time? drive cabs, deliver pizzas and take the night cashier slots at the local conveniece store or gas station. they either don't have jobs, and go on welfare to get their education for free (the ones who know people here and know the system do that) and contribute to the unemployment rate that way, or they take 2 or 3 menial part time or full time jobs so they can support their wife and kids in any way that's close to the standard of living they once had and take a few jobs away from others, contriubting to the unemployment rate THAT way.

and OF COURSE they can't read...they can't really speak english let alone read it, but when they get here they take classes and learn and imporve. some do more, some do less. it all depends on where they land in the system.

that statement is true, and sad, and i think that's how it was meant. not as immigrants are bad. but as the process that's here for them when they come is bad, and needs to be fixed. engineers scrubbing toilets is sad.

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d_rawk Newbie

d_rawk

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Wowza, that was one hell of an epic post, Smoothedshredder. Thanks for that. You've captured a certain sentiment that seems to be growing across the country.

Forgive me a minor quibble, though - the BQ and the PQ are different parties, and Parizeau was never a leader of the Bloc, just as Charest isn't now. One is the (provincial) party of Levesque, the other is the (federal) party of Bouchard.

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djmelbatoast Newbie

djmelbatoast

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How you can justify a man who does nothing but pay lip service to this absurd stereotype of Canadians as peace loving, cultured, progressive people and still pay all HIS taxes overseas, hidden in an offshore account is beyond me. I've lived in Canada my whole life. I know that most of the people out there are useless assholes.

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Alexis Newbie

Alexis

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well to be fair, he didn't pay ALL his taxes overseas...but he did pay some. and what he did pay overseas was in reality a wise business decision. and i don't hold wise business decisions against anyone. but when you want to run the country, doing a run around on the taxes doesn't look good. when you lead, you should lead by example.

then again,...if our taxes weren't so high, we wouldn't have companies having to operate under another flag, paying taxes somewhere else.

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SmoothedShredder Newbie

SmoothedShredder

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Wowza, that was one hell of an epic post, Smoothedshredder. Thanks for that. You've captured a certain sentiment that seems to be growing across the country.

Forgive me a minor quibble, though - the BQ and the PQ are different parties, and Parizeau was never a leader of the Bloc, just as Charest isn't now. One is the (provincial) party of Levesque, the other is the (federal) party of Bouchard.

Ooopss... sorry bout that... you know when you start a rant... hehe

But I did mean to suggest that Jean Charest, who was sent to Quebec to help instil confidnce in Quebec from his ranks as the Federal Conservative Leader, has done far less in this area then his rival from the PQ (the Provicial Variety)...

It takes alot of gall to say the Liberals aren't going to get a seat in Quebec... it's not going to happen, but I will say... That's a big pile of gall.

(So why was Parizeau so visible during the referendum, he was the provicial leader non? and in charge of the roads n'est pas?)... I've been wrong before.

~W

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