Christian Paradox?

[Deeps]

This is a question I've had for some time...maybe you can shed some light on it.

How is it that Catholics are allowed to worship around the statue of the Virgin Mary? Does this not constitute worshipping a false idol? false in the sense that it's just plaster?

Also Blinged-out crosses. Aren't you bringing wealth and money into something that is supposed to be symbolic? Greed is a deadly sin right?

Thought I'd broach these topics so as to not be a strictly muslim critic today.

Anyway.

Deeps

[AD]

Also Blinged-out crosses. Aren't you bringing wealth and money into something that is supposed to be symbolic? Greed is a deadly sin right?

I don't know the answer you're looking for (42?), but have you ever seen the blinged-out Vatican?

AD

[bradm]

Well, when we see the popemobile on "Pimp My Ride", I'll start to get worried, fo' shizzle.

Aloha,

Brad

[Deeps]

Also Blinged-out crosses. Aren't you bringing wealth and money into something that is supposed to be symbolic? Greed is a deadly sin right?

I don't know the answer you're looking for (42?)' date=' but have you ever seen the blinged-out Vatican?

AD[/quote']

No answers per se, just thoughts. This stuff just seems weird to me somehow as an outsider looking in.

Good point on the Vatican.

41.

[dJEd]

oh, no one told you? religion is fucking stupid bullshit.

[Birdy]

i can't attest to plaster, but the blinged out crosses.. maybe they consider it an 'offering' of sorts.

[StoneMtn]

The paradoxes never end when it comes to the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

It starts right at the beginning, when Cain (son of Adam and Eve) killed Abel and was sent out into the wilderness. He then had a son, "Enoch"...

Exactly with whom did he have this son, given that there were only three people on Earth?

[bradm]

It starts right at the beginning, when Cain (son of Adam and Eve) killed Abel and was sent out into the wilderness. He then had a son, "Enoch"...

Exactly with whom did he have this son, given that there were only three people on Earth?

Chuck Norris.

Aloha,

Brad

[thatpatguy]

As a Catholic (at least on paper) I can answer both your questions respectively

here it is:

[color:purple]SHUT UP YOU HEATHEN!

and

[color:purple]WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?

[Alexis]

i've put a call into my mum at the godline but she's busy with work and will call me back. i'll get some answers for ya deeps!

[Dr. J]

The paradoxes never end when it comes to the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

Right on. One of the best I ever heard was when George Carlin asked, "Can God make a rock so heavy that even he couldn't pick it up?" Gotta love George one of the world's great religious thinkers.

[StoneMtn]

Actually, he stole that from Zeno (ancient Greece).

[AD]

Actually, he stole that from Zdeno (ancient Ottawa).

AD

[Tooly]

actually, they stoole it from homer simpson, and re-worded it, homer asked ned once while homer was smoking medicinals, can jesus heat a burrito so hot even he cant eat it?

then ned read him the bible.

gooood times

i believe you dont have to go to a church every week to be religoius, i dont think you have to give 10% of your salary to the church, i mean it helps with upkeep for sure, but i dont think it pleases the lord to do so. i feel like im at church when im out in a nice forest just being.

[Dr. J]

Actually, he stole that from Zeno (ancient Greece).

You're kidding. That's funny. Wonder if George considered it a sin haha i don't even know what album i heard that on AM-FM maybe. His stuff about the priest coming to visit his school is still some of the funniest shit I've heard.

[timouse]

The paradoxes never end when it comes to the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

Right on. One of the best I ever heard was when George Carlin asked' date=' "Can God make a rock so heavy that even he couldn't pick it up?" Gotta love George one of the world's great religious thinkers.[/quote']

from one of Christianity's greatest thinkers...

"Could God microwave a burrito so hot that even He couldn't eat it??

[StoneMtn]

Zeno had a whole list of "paradoxes". Run a search on "Zeno's Paradox" and it should come up.

(Most of them, unfortunately, were just illogical and attracted tonnes of criticism. They were then buried for more than 2000 years, before we started to study him again.)

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Here's my $.02, before I get into my first drink (just came from Cully's post; booze and religion do, though, make for an interesting combo .

Way I see it, humanity is soaked in contradiction, and so are the religions we cook up (this is once you get past the claims of revealed religion, which admittedly lots of people don't want to). I figure that more or less sums it up. Ludwig Feuerbach argued (imo convincingly) that God was nothing more than an objectified symbol of our own self-limitations, and a continuing excuse for us not to excel (like Hegel's "bad infinity"). But then you see even the same argument in the Upanishads and the pre-Socratics, so this isn't anything new.

As for the statue of Mary business, the orthodox line on that is that Mary is an intercessor, to be venerated, but not worshipped. Yes, that's a thin line; for lots of people, the distinction may well be lost.

And as for the bling - yes, the Vatican is bling central (that's what offended Martin Luther so much that he kick-started the Reformation to try to distance Christianity from it all). Protestants haven't ended up doing too much better, mind you (bearing in mind as well that there are somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40,000 distinct Protestant denominations around the world today). Just check out all the SUVs in front of your average Baptist megachurch.

One of the pictures I'll always regret not having taken was in a cemetary outside of Deer Creek, where someone's big stone cross (I mean about 10 feet high) had carved in the centre a great big dollar sign. Jello Biafra couldn't have come up with better.

[Lazlo]

Should've known this thread wasn't about me or the paradox in my pants.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

God was nothing more than an objectified symbol of our own self-limitations, and a continuing excuse for us not to excel

Well said. God induces a lack of responsibility for most everything, including the positive, which, in my opinion, is not a healthy way to roll through life.

And, I'm pretty sure you can't plead ignorance in court.

StoneMTN?

[StoneMtn]

And, I'm pretty sure you can't plead ignorance in court.

StoneMTN?

That's essentially true if you're accused of a crime.

It may not be the case in a civil action, however. For example, a party is not liable if someone is injured on their property as a result of a "latent, hidden defect" on their property of which they couldn't reasonably be aware and which they allege and show they did not know about... (but I suspect I'm giving more of an answer than you really want).

"God's dead" anyway.

~ Nietzsche.

[M.O.B.E]

Deeps I recommend giving David Icke a try. I'm reading his book Children of the Matrix right now. Alot of interesting view points on similar questions to the ones you are asking.

[d_rawk]

Hmm. Isn't Icke the one who thinks that the Queen (among others) is actually a disguised alien lizard ... but, like, not metaphorically but ... for real?

(or the countervailing opinion, that when Icke says 'Lizard' what he actually means to say is 'Jew' seeing as he gives credence to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and given his faithful following of loyal neo-nazis)

[d_rawk]

To be fair: Icke denies these claims ...

Icke's theories have been attacked as anti-Semitic because his views of a reptilian takeover amid references to international bankers have echoes of conspiracy theories involving Jews.

Icke has strongly denied that his reptiles represent Jews. "I am not an anti-Semite!", he told The Guardian, "I have a great respect for the Jewish people." [8] He maintains that the reptilians are not human, and therefore not Jewish, but are "extra-dimensional entities" that enter and control human minds. He also says that what he calls the "white race" is most susceptible to reptilian influence, particularly white people with blue eyes. [9]

However, Icke's statements that a cabal of Jewish bankers planned the Holocaust and financed Hitler's rise to power are regarded as anti-Semitic by Jewish groups and others. Icke has cited white supremacist, neo-Nazi and other far-right publications in his books. Simon Jones notes that the bibliography of ... and the truth will set you free lists The Spotlight, formerly published by the now-defunct Liberty Lobby, and which Icke calls "excellent," and On Target, published by the Australian League of Rights, which has organized speaking tours for Holocaust denier David Irving. Jones writes: "It's tempting to dismiss David Icke as a confused and ignorant man, manipulated by extremists in order to present their philosophy in a socially acceptable format. But Icke clearly understands the implications of his words." [10]

During a question-and-answer session after one of his lectures, Icke told Jones: "I believe that people have a right to believe, to read, and have access to all information, so that they can then make up their own minds what to think. If something is a nonsense, and if something doesn't stand up, it will be shown to be a nonsense in the spotlight of the public arena."

In 1999, Icke's books were removed from Indigo stores across Ontario, and several venues on his speaking tour were cancelled, after protests from the Canadian Jewish Congress. The University of Toronto allowed his planned speech there to go ahead, despite the presence of 70 protesters, including the Green Party of Ontario, outside the Hart House Theatre. Icke received a standing ovation from the audience after speaking for five hours.

University of Toronto law professor Edward Morgan wrote on September 30, 1999 to the university's president, Robert Pritchard:

Having been involved in a number of the more renowned cases in Canada dealing with hate literature, it is my view that this is precisely the type of vilifying material with which the Supreme Court was concerned in its decision regarding the Criminal Code ban. The publications praise classic anti-Semitic tracts, and are replete with references to a secret society carrying on a global conspiracy led by a manipulating Jewish clique. The material which I have reviewed finds no place in the Canadian marketplace of ideas. [11]

[StoneMtn]

I come from the Land o' Lizards...