Alexis Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 ok i'm not going to say it, not going to say it, not going to say it...on other topics...the world isn't going to explode, no horns came out in the acceptance speech...stop your bitching and moaning and wait and see what the guy actually does. jeeeeeeeeeeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 C'mon, be a sport.Say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 i told you sooh man that felt good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Food for thought? Stephen Harper May Be the Best Thing for the Women's Movement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 There ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Interesting that many of the Cons anti-marriage (that is: anti-samesex-marriage in the old vernacular) candidates got defeated, but almost all of the anti-marriage Liberals got re-elected.So 118 Con + 31 Lib + 5 BQ = 154 Anti-Gay Votes. Damn that's close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 on other topics...the world isn't going to explode, no horns came out in the acceptance speech...stop your bitching and moaning and wait and see what the guy actually does. jeeeeeeeeeeez. hahaah! there must have been close to eight times today where i would post a reply somewhere in this thread telling people to chill out on the paranoia, but opted to delete each time in fear of being the lone ranger. chill out on the paranoia guys. this conspiracy theory stuff is getting pretty outtahand, especially considering that the cons haven't governed in 12 YEARS! stop eating up the propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guigsy Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 hahaha... birdy, i have to apologize up front, because lately i feel like im always piggy backing on your posts - but you've been keying on a lot of points that have been swimming in my head recently... wasnt there a syncronicity thread somewhere? this time about propaganda. it's just real easy for anyone on the other side of the fence to say those on the opposite side are "buying the propaganda". in any regard, with any fence. if you're on the left and you dont believe the right, the right tells you to stop buying the propaganda. if you're on the right and you dont believe the left, the left tells you to stop buying the propaganda. i honestly dont know who or what to believe anymore, outside of the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Vigilance is the yadayadayada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Harper has put his ideology aside to appeal the mushy centre. And that's great.But it isn't propaganda that people are reacting to -- it is the known and oft articulated positions of both the man and others in the party. They may forego their beliefs and desires in exchange for power, or they may not. They may hold back this time, banking on a majority the next. It could go many ways. But there is no shortage of documentation of where many, many of these people stand and it is a matter of record, not the stuff of conspiracy theory or propaganda.My heart would have sunk if the Liberals had managed to eke out another government in a way that my heart didn't sink when the Conservative's won. But a certain measure of alarm is warranted. The Conservatives did not win a conservative mandate, they were the beneficiaries of a protest vote and a disgust with the party in power -- not its policies. So long as they understand this and govern accordingly, all is well. The open question remains whether they will have the discipline to do so. And there are reasons to think that they have no such discipline.I agree, it is too early to tell how this will pan out. A Conservative win here may, in the end, turn out to have been the best thing for the country. Or an unmitigated disaster. Cautious skepticism and paranoia all too often look alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 DEM - you lost me d_rawk - i know that there a some strong minded right wingers out there, but the entire party isn't so, i can think of two right off the bat newly elected last night who aren't. i guess just reading the michael moore thread, and then reading the fears of everyone in this one, going to war, kyoto falling apart, canada becoming a terrorist target, the straight up "fear" of harper, i can't help but think people bought some of the smear the liberals put out with the whole "stop harper" campaign. extremism is a weird thing. i fear more when i read some people voted for the marxist-lenninist party and that i can at least say is for good reason.. the whole party is extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 DEM - you lost me Sorry - it's getting late, and I'm getting lazy and sloppy. That's the abolitionist Wendell Phillips - "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." I've been looking at natural law in my ethics class and that ditty's been echoing around in my head for a couple of days (I'm too tired to get into what makes that a natural law sort of issue, so I'll leave it at that). And then there's Professor Moody from the Harry Potter books - "Constant vigilance!" Speaking of which, time to go read a kid to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im going home Donny Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I like your forsight d rawk...you pretty much nailed my sentiments towards this shitstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 i honestly dont know who or what to believe anymore, outside of the heart. me either guigsy. guess that's why i'm pretty much for the near abolition of all forms of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I'm moving to the Turks & Caicos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 ...i can't help but think people bought some of the smear the liberals put out with the whole "stop harper" campaign. Corruption. Scandal. Culture of entitlement. Are you telling me the Cons didn't run a "Stop Martin" campaign? And no, I have no idea why I continue to bang my head against the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmelbatoast Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I was terrified of Harper, his party, Martin, his party and the majority of their supporter well before this election was called. Both the Liberals and the Conservatives smear campaigns just helped me realize even more clearly how completely screwed up the electoral sysem is, not to mention these two parties.Aaaahhh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 just helped me realize even more clearly how completely screwed up the electoral sysem is, not to mention these two parties.Aaaahhh!!!Once again, Canada’s antiquated first-past-the-post system wasted millions of votes, distorted results, severely punished large blocks of voters, exaggerated regional differences, created an unrepresentative Parliament, and may possibly have even given us the wrong government.The chief victims of the January 23 federal election were:# Western Liberals: In the prairie provinces, Conservatives got three times as many votes as Liberals did, but won nearly ten times as many seats. In Alberta, the Conservative Party won 100% of the seats with 65% of the votes. The 500,000 Albertans who voted otherwise elected no one.# Urban Conservatives: The 400,000-plus Conservative voters in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver should have been able to elect about nine MPs, but instead elected no one. The three cities together will not have a single MP in the governing caucus, let alone the cabinet.# New Democrats: The NDP attracted a million more votes than the Bloc, but the voting system gave the Bloc 51 seats, the NDP 29. Nearly 18% of Canadians voted NDP, but the party won less than 10% of the seats and does not hold the balance of power, unlike the Liberals and the Bloc.# Green Party: More than 650,000 Green Party voters across the country elected no one, while 475,000 Liberal voters in Atlantic Canada elected 20 MPs.# Federalists and nationalists: As usual, the voting system turned entire regions of Canada into partisan fiefdoms, rather than allowing the diversity of views in all regions to be fairly represented in Parliament and within each national party.[...]Had the same votes been cast under a proportional voting system, Fair Vote Canada projected that the seats allocation would have been approximately as follows:# Conservatives - 36.3% of the popular vote: 113 seats (not 124)# Liberals - 30.1% of the popular vote: 93 seats (not 103)# NDP - 17.5% of the popular vote: 59 seats (not 29)# Bloc - 10.5% of the popular vote: 31 seats (not 51)# Greens - 4.5% of the popular vote: 12 seats (not 0)However, Smith emphasized that speculation should be tempered.“With a different voting system, people would have voted differently,†he said. “There would have been no need for strategic voting. We would likely have seen higher voter turnout. We would have had different candidates - more women, and more diversity of all kinds. We would have had more real choices.â€â€œThe voting system really matters – a lot – and the system we have is simply not acceptable in a modern democracy.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yup - nice voting system . What's to be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yup - nice voting system .What's to be done? reality tv is the answer, dave...i can see it now..."Who Wants to be Prime Minister?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Apparently Layton plays guitar - that couldn't hurt, could it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 What's to be done? Yeah. I dunno. I guess donate to Fair Vote, bring it up as a matter of discussion with people who might be interested, support parties that support PR. Next election, hammer home electoral reform at all candidates debates and make it clear that it is a deal breaker. I'm starting to expect this to be a really quiet Parliamentary session with as little legislation as possible. The CPC has been in favour of some measure of electoral reform, but are for various reasons hesitant about PR. No problem. The important thing is to set up citizen committees (BC style) to decide on proposals, and to present those well-considered proposals to the population at large. This is one of the few scenarios in which I am all in favour of referenda. Whatever we decide on should be decided on by the people, with as much visible distance from governing officials as possible. The Liberals kept committing themselves to this but played all manner of games to push it back and fuck with it. A hint of sincerity and a touch of honesty, and we could re-invent ourselves in a way that would empower those who feel so disenfranchised from the system. Martin's Liberals had neither, which is one of the reasons I'm not too sad to see them take a well needed time out. Ontario has expressed some interest in pursuing this provincially. I think that that may be the first step. BC and PEI have come very close, but those who wanted to hamper their progress insisted on uber-majorities which ultimately weren't attainable. If we can pull this off provincially, it is just a matter of time before we have the satisfaction of seeing some genuine democracy federally. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yup - nice voting system .What's to be done? reality tv is the answer' date=' dave...i can see it now..."Who Wants to be Prime Minister?" [/quote'] Greatest idea ever!!! But please, please, don't let Ben Mulroney host it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yup - nice voting system .What's to be done? reality tv is the answer' date=' dave...i can see it now..."Who Wants to be Prime Minister?" [/quote'] Greatest idea ever!!! But please, please, don't let Ben Mulroney host it. Consider this: if he does host it, it'll mean he won't be eligible to be a contestant... Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 That would make Ralph Benmurgui the perfect candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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