census

[Alexis]

I just got one of those forwarded emails saying that the census for 2006 has been outsourced to the US company lockheed martin, which gives the US government access to the data collected.

Anyone know if this is true? (stnmtn) Do you have to participate in the census? i'm all for stats and surveys....but let's keep this shit in house.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Bloody hell, I think I did hear something about this. Scary.

[bradm]

I haven't heard about this. I did a search on CBC for 'census', but didn't catch anything recent.

Aloha,

Brad

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i thought lockheed martin was an airplane manufacturer... or are they one of those superhuge everything companies?

how does outsourcing the census give the data to the americans? and isn't all the census data public record anyways? if the americans wanted it couldn't they just go to statscan and ask for it?

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[ollie]

I just got one of those forwarded emails saying that the census for 2006 has been outsourced to the US company lockheed martin, which gives the US government access to the data collected.

From the official 2006 Census web site:

Does Statistics Canada have a contract with Lockheed Martin?

Yes. Following an open, competitive and stringent bidding process, Lockheed Martin Canada along with IBM Canada and Transcontinental Printing Canada are required to provide hardware, software and printing services to Statistics Canada for the 2006 Census. At no point does any contractor collect, handle, or possess confidential census responses.

Is contracting new to the Census?

No. Statistics Canada has relied on the private sector to provide equipment, printing and other services in conducting previous Censuses, while always protecting data confidentiality.

More information, including how the Census is impacted by the Patriot Act (it's not), can be found here:

The census and contractors - The facts

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Thanks, Ollie, for that. Clarity is good .

Lockheed-Martin give me the chills for being the biggest weapons manufacturing companies on the planet. It was their presence in Columbine, CO, among other things that tweaked Michael Moore (easy, Birdy! ) into making Bowling for Columbine. Kinda makes it hard to trust them. The war industry strikes me as a little too Machiavellian.

High-tech voting... I hope we don't go the way some US states have gone, doing their best to circumvent paper altogether. That's just plain dodgy.

[Birdy]

heheehehehe.

that made me laugh.. a lot.

[StoneMtn]

I don't know all the details on this, but I do know that when we contract this stuff out to American corporations, they do have access to our information.

That means our information is available to an American entity, who is governed by the Patriot Act, meaning that our information is essentially available to the American government at their whim.

(We have serious issues with this in British Columbia, because we have actually sold our "Medical Services Plan" handling to an American company, which means they have access to all our medical information, and the same leaks to the American government then apply.)

Welcome to the future.

(To answer one of your original questions, I don't think you're under any legal obligation to fill out a census form, but I can't say that for sure.)

[Im going home Donny]

scarey

[ollie]

I don't know all the details on this, but I do know that when we contract this stuff out to American corporations, they do have access to our information.

If you believe Stats Canada then the contractors only have access to information that will be made publically available, like here.

I am under the impression (but don't have a source) that it's obligatory to complete the census form, or at least the long version which I was unfortunately tagged with during the last census.

[StoneMtn]

As far as limited access to information goes, that may be the case with censuses. I really don't know.

That is categorically not the case with the medical info in BC that I mentioned above.

[cANDYmAN]

Didn't an American collection agency get the contract to retrieve outstanding student loans? I can’t recall if it was OSAP or the Federal loans. Anybody? I'd imagine that contract comes with some type of assumed access to our information.

It's almost check mate if we keep selling our shit off… and Tim Horton’s was American this whole time before it went public, man. Now Harper is tossing the decriminalization of pot plan... pffft. Thank god we can still download their movies and music... at least that still pisses them off.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I am under the impression (but don't have a source) that it's obligatory to complete the census form, or at least the long version which I was unfortunately tagged with during the last census.

That's what we were told a few years back working for the census to tell people who said they were refusing - comes with all sorts of nasty consequences. There may be a conscious objection sort of clause; it's probably a good idea to draft up a bunch of those anyway for all sorts of circumstances, if things keep going the way they might seem to be going :crazy: .

[Birdy]

section 31 of the statistics act makes it an offence to refuse to give census info or to falsify your survey.. 500 bucks or three months in jail.

[snarfmaster C]

i work at statscan.

security of personal information is so tight here it's unbelievable.

i would absolutely believe that any contracts out would *not* be given any access to personal information. or any information that could be tied to a person.

the information you give for census remains entirely confidential and is protected beyond the point of it ever being possible that anyone could figure out any characteristics about an individual or household.

every employee at statscan is required to take an oath to protect confidentiality.

also, it is required that you complete the census form.

i don't like the thought of anybody in government knowing anything about me, but i have complete faith in the way statscan does business.

you could tell them that you did everything illegal under the sun and there wouldn't be anything anyone would do. seriously. the information you give goes nowhere. read it - it's written on the census questionanaire itself.

p.s. look out for a survey of household environmental practices going out next year. :cool:

[mattm]

section 31 of the statistics act makes it an offence to refuse to give census info or to falsify your survey.. 500 bucks or three months in jail.

hehehe, yet another law I break which I'm not aware of. At least when I don't fill one out this year I'll know that I'm being bad.

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i can assume then that everyone that doesn't take the time once in 10 years to fill out a form won't complain once about lack of services, imbalances, underrepresentation, taxes, etc...

Demographics play a huge part in where money gets spent, and where money doesn't get spent.

Say I decide to have a keg party, I invite 50 people , 10 tell me they're coming. So I buy a pony keg. All 50 show up expecting beer. Not enough to go around.

Once in 10 years... Not filling out a census card is even lazier than not voting. There's not even politics attached to the census.

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[mattm]

In my case it has nothing to do with laziness. I just don't want any official records with my address and name on them.

[AD]

In my case it has nothing to do with laziness. I just don't want any official records with my address and name on them.

Are you a draft dodger?

[snarfmaster C]

In my case it has nothing to do with laziness. I just don't want any official records with my address and name on them.

man - these data do not leave statscan. not to any other government department or anything.

in fact, once they're input electronically, they're aggregated to the point that you can't be identified.

why so sensitive about your name and address? well, i guess if you won't give it to someone who's taken an oath you won't post in on the internet either... sorry

[AD]

how do you feel about posting your thoughts about this on the internet, a military invention? YOU ARE BENIFITTING FROM THE DEATH!!!

sorry. just think what you've written is a tad ridiculous. but to each his own.

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[Velvet]

So, Lockheed Martin et al are responsible for supplying software and printing and such, so I'm assuming that they are involved only in pre-filled-out forms and the like, so once a form is filled out they're completely out of the picture.

Is that right?

[Birdy]

i had a teacher once who did his taxes in roman numerals. that's a fun way to screw your government over.

(i have no idea how to pluralize census so i'll be creative) censai are extremely important surveys for the order of society. attempting to screw with the census, probably somehow, indirectly, screws you.

[snarfmaster C]

So, Lockheed Martin et al are responsible for supplying software and printing and such, so I'm assuming that they are involved only in pre-filled-out forms and the like, so once a form is filled out they're completely out of the picture.

Is that right?

i don't know their involvement, but as far as staffing go, it's all canadian and all under oath. i imagine they would just supply equipment and maybe techies ?

[bradm]

Yes, it's possible the contract with L-M means they won't be accessing the data, but this get snaggy when/if a L-M tech has to go in to the system (i.e., access its database directly) to debug what ends up there. While there may be nothing in the contract that requires Canada to give data to L-M, it'll often be necessary to give L-M personnel access to the (raw) data.

Aloha,

Brad