Vegan parents found guilty of infant murder

[paisley]

never had much of a thing for soy, while vegan or not... didn't generally make me feel particularly healthy, sometimes made me feel downright gross... only way I really like it is disguised in a burger or something like that (and in Bragg's ! mmmm so damn good!)

problem most people run into across switching diets is believing they can trade one thing for a "new brand" of the same thing

the good you get from cow's milk isn't replaced by soy or rice milk (will say that I like rice milk a lot as a thirst quencher though)... its replaced by eating a bunch of different foods that cover your calcium and vitamin needs... things like chick peas, sesame paste or seeds, dark green vegetables etc. (in palatable forms like falafel, pita and humous, whatever makes green vegetables taste good to you, etc)

stop eating meat and you need more beans, nuts, eggplant, grains, pastas etc.

salad and fruit mostly do the same for you whether you're carnivore or veggie... good for you, and not a full diet

veggie burgers and soy milk alone does not a healthy vegan make by any means, just looks appealing when you only know how to cook a limited number of meal choices

bottom line, people should eat what their body tells them to eat... but in a country with growing obesity and diabeties issues you'd figure checking out some new non-animal based meals can't hurt... so many awesome african, south american, mid-eastern or asian dishes the majority of north americans have even heard of

Edited May 4, 2007 by Guest
Bragg's

[Freak By Night]

They should have been jailed just for naming their child "Crown".

[Im going home Donny]

I don't think this case should be a catalyst to lynch vegans. There has too been cases of omnivorous parents starving thier children out of ignorance and neglect.

Vegans that I know are very healthy and take great steps to ensure they are meeting all of their dietary needs...and in no way have 'eating disorders'. They choose a vegan diet out of enviremental and compassionate reasons. Some simply are vegetarians with intolerances to dairy.

These parents were just plain ignorant and neglectfull. Its also my understanding that they are die hard religeous fanatics...

Soy milk is different from soy formula. While I agree soy has plenty of problems plenty of babies have intolerances to breast milk. I'm pretty sure soy milk cartons actually read to not be used as formula. Similac is fed to millions of babies with no ill effects.

Anyways...this thread is full of suprizes and I could go on and on thats for certain.

All in all its just sad, miserable beans.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

Stupid people eat a lot of different things.

[bouche]

As a meat lover, I've been told that a portion of protein should come from soy. I'm not sure why though.

[Super Freak]

I don't think this case should be a catalyst to lynch vegans. There has too been cases of omnivorous parents starving thier children out of ignorance and neglect.

Vegans that I know are very healthy and take great steps to ensure they are meeting all of their dietary needs...and in no way have 'eating disorders'. They choose a vegan diet out of enviremental and compassionate reasons. Some simply are vegetarians with intolerances to dairy.

These parents were just plain ignorant and neglectfull. Its also my understanding that they are die hard religeous fanatics...

Soy milk is different from soy formula. While I agree soy has plenty of problems [color:red]plenty of babies have intolerances to breast milk. I'm pretty sure soy milk cartons actually read to not be used as formula. [color:red]Similac is fed to millions of babies with no ill effects.

Anyways...this thread is full of suprizes and I could go on and on thats for certain.

All in all its just sad, miserable beans.

Breast is Best Y'all. I am quite curious where you got the info on baby's being intolerant of their mother's breast milk.

The Similac comment---well, I will assume that you don't have any babes...or if you do, you did not breastfeed. Formula, although it's great if you have NO other choice, does have ill effects. Kids that are not boobie fed get way more sick that the average breast fed infant--ear aches, infections of all kinds...their immune systems are compromised greatly by the lack of help from the mother's natural boost. And don't get me started on the bonding process that is established during natural nursing. Anyhoo...I feel the militant hippy coming out in me and I have to shock myself into submission sometimes. Dancin' Man is in for a shock if he knocks me up...Muwahahaha

[phorbesie]

hmmm....

i dunno if it's that simple SF. i was formula fed from the get go and was a very healthy baby, infant, kid, adult, etc.

my niece and nephew however, were breastfed and they are constantly getting ear infections, colds, etc.

[Kanada Kev]

Phorbsie, i'm with you. Same situation. I grew up when mothers were encouraged to use formula (kickback to family physicians i'm sure) and was very healthy as a child ... my sister too.

Both my kids were breast fed (not my breasts ) and are doing great ... but get sick just as much as the next kids do.

For some mothers, the experience of breast feeding is horrible and painful and for some it just doesn't work. The added stress of people telling them they are less of a mother because they are not breast feeding is plain cruel. This is not good for the baby or the mother. I have seen this happen.

[ollie]

We have a mother in the office who breast feeds her baby... DURING MEETINGS!!

[CatPhish]

Well put Kanada Kev.

and I don't think we can or should be comparing mothers who do not breast feed to those who starve their children-I think that's a dangerous comparison.

Breast feeding is by far the hardest thing I have ever done in my life and until you've done so you have no idea. There are many many benifits and it is a great bonding experience but it can be really really tough. Like barracuda eating your nipple tough.

[Im going home Donny]

I don't think this case should be a catalyst to lynch vegans. There has too been cases of omnivorous parents starving thier children out of ignorance and neglect.

Vegans that I know are very healthy and take great steps to ensure they are meeting all of their dietary needs...and in no way have 'eating disorders'. They choose a vegan diet out of enviremental and compassionate reasons. Some simply are vegetarians with intolerances to dairy.

These parents were just plain ignorant and neglectfull. Its also my understanding that they are die hard religeous fanatics...

Soy milk is different from soy formula. While I agree soy has plenty of problems [color:red]plenty of babies have intolerances to breast milk. I'm pretty sure soy milk cartons actually read to not be used as formula. [color:red]Similac is fed to millions of babies with no ill effects.

Anyways...this thread is full of suprizes and I could go on and on thats for certain.

All in all its just sad' date=' miserable beans.

[/quote']

Breast is Best Y'all. I am quite curious where you got the info on baby's being intolerant of their mother's breast milk.

The Similac comment---well, I will assume that you don't have any babes...or if you do, you did not breastfeed. Formula, although it's great if you have NO other choice, does have ill effects. Kids that are not boobie fed get way more sick that the average breast fed infant--ear aches, infections of all kinds...their immune systems are compromised greatly by the lack of help from the mother's natural boost. And don't get me started on the bonding process that is established during natural nursing. Anyhoo...I feel the militant hippy coming out in me and I have to shock myself into submission sometimes. Dancin' Man is in for a shock if he knocks me up...Muwahahaha

When you assume...you make an ass out of me and you make an ass out of you.

Our son is 6 months old. I have exclusively breast fed him untill a month ago. It is perfectly viable to breast feed exclusively up to one year depending on the individual situation. Its not for us. In all likely hood I will continue to breast feed him untill he is between 1 and 2...we'll see how it goes...thats how I have taken it this entire time.

I am not a better mother for going this route. I did what worked for me personally in my situation.

I think one of the worst things for mother and child is being judged by outsiders.

I now know of two people personally whose babies were allergic to their mums milk. It happens and more often than one would think going by the countless baby books I've seen information in.

I doubt very much one could say that mothers who don't breast feed don't have the same bond as mothers who do. Thats just rude on so many levels.

Check your head.

When my mum moved to Canada the gov at that time did not reccomend breast feeding...my poor mum was ridiculed for breast feeding us.

There are vast numbers of perfectly healthy/non breast fed people walking around and visa versa and plenty of sick breast fed people walking around and visa versa...basicly everything Kanada Kev and Catfish said!

If a woman does choose to breast feed...well they have the right to do so anyplace, anytime...yes in the office...deal with it, be kind and help her feel more comftorble. Breast feeding in public doesn't bother me for the most part but sometimes...every now and then it does lots...mostly thats when I sense others discomfort.

Did I mention I'm vegatarian with an intolerance to dairy?

haha..lets rock!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

cat phight!

[Im going home Donny]

meow, meow, meow.

[gentlemonkey]

cat phight!

Don't encourage them, 'Barracuda'!!!

[Im going home Donny]

hissss.

[AD]

i love meat

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Barrettcuda

[Im going home Donny]

Did I mention our boy is 24 whopping pounds.

haha..oh gees I better go before I start posting baby pictures!!!

[Super Freak]

Actually I was being light hearted...And I am not judgmental at all but you think what you want, I just wanted to know where you got that info from. I had heard of babies being allergic to something that the mother had eaten but not the breast milk itself.

I am a mother of twins whom I breastfed for over a year, I know the hardships--my milk didn't come in for over a week and I ended up having to supliment after 7 weeks exclusively breastfeeding because my babies were starving to death--my pregnancy hit me like a Mack Truck and, 8 years later I still have health problems from it. My babies were born a month early and were still 9 lbs and almost 7 pounds.

I apologize if I came off judgmental - I thought I made fun of myself in the post as a militant hippie which I used to be...I am at work, I probably didn't comb through the post for tone. I did not expect to inspire you to write such long angry post. I don't have the time to respond to all the things you said. I wrote about 4 sentences--you deduced a fair bit of nasty shit from those few sentences.

I will not be responding to anymore to this thread. I'm very sorry to have upset anyone.

[onthejourney]

It is quite possible that the babies who are allergic to their mama's breast milk are in fact, allergic to something she is eating and that is being passed on through the milk.

I personally will not use formula ever but if that is what works for someone then so be it. I wouldn't use rice milk or soy milk either. If anything, homemade almond milk is best next to breast milk, in my opinion. It is full of calcium, iron, trace minerals, thicker (like breast milk) and has tonnes of EFA's (essential fatty acids) which are key to the brain, eye, joint, connective tissue etc. development of the baby.

I think the problem with this story is that it does not articulate. What I mean is that there are a lot of people who call themselves vegetarian lets say, who don't eat very well at all. My step-grandma for instance says she is vegetarian yet she eats so much processed stuff that is full of chemicals that are very detrimental to your health but just doesn't eat out-right meat. Like those Yves veggie meat replacement foods...read and understand ingredient labels...sure its not meat but it is full of hydrogenated oils (trans fats) and other fake stuff that your body does not recognize and in turn causes dis-ease in the body! My step-gran is probably 350 pounds!

Being vegetarian or vegan are both very difficult diets, especially if you have no idea what balanced nutrition is. A lot of vegans and vegetarians get sick simply because they don't get enough protein. But these diet can be extremely healthy when you understand what a human body needs.

It is too difficult to judge this as "feeding a baby a vegan diet will kill it" because really, if it was done properly, the baby probably would not have died.....but then again, maybe it was the baby's time...who knows. Friends of mine feed their child breast milk and vegetarian maybe even vegan and this child is super healthy. She still gets some colds like every other kid, but those build your immune system anyways.

My 2 cents -- it's been awhile

[Tricky]

actually kids who get ear infections, rashes, and constantly suffer from a runny nose/colds, are 99.9% of the time fed cows milk. Mother's milk is the best choice if that's a choice at all, it just sometimes lacks a sufficient amount of vitamin D, especially being Canadians.

[Kanada Kev]

wow ... i seem to know an odd amount of those 0.1%

hmmmmmm

[Im going home Donny]

Actually I was being light hearted...And I am not judgmental at all but you think what you want, I just wanted to know where you got that info from. I had heard of babies being allergic to something that the mother had eaten but not the breast milk itself.

I am a mother of twins whom I breastfed for over a year, I know the hardships--my milk didn't come in for over a week and I ended up having to supliment after 7 weeks exclusively breastfeeding because my babies were starving to death--my pregnancy hit me like a Mack Truck and, 8 years later I still have health problems from it. My babies were born a month early and were still 9 lbs and almost 7 pounds.

I apologize if I came off judgmental - I thought I made fun of myself in the post as a militant hippie which I used to be...I am at work, I probably didn't comb through the post for tone. I did not expect to inspire you to write such long angry post. I don't have the time to respond to all the things you said. I wrote about 4 sentences--you deduced a fair bit of nasty shit from those few sentences.

I will not be responding to anymore to this thread. I'm very sorry to have upset anyone.

no worries.

Its a touchy subject and reading what you just said makes me see you much better. I'm a firey gal and my flames were allready burning. When you said you assumed I didn't have kids because of what I said...I saw red and didn't see much further.

Also while I agree breast feeding is good...people need to understand that every single individual situation is different on so many levels...not neccessarily better or worse...just different and one needs to be very carefull to not make anyone feel badly...exspecially moms because moms are soooo important.

My first couple of months of breast feeding were incredibly hard and had it not gotten better exactly when it did I wouldn't have continued as a sane mom is much better than an insane mom.

As for breast milk allergies..I am no expert. My understanding is that it can be something mom is eating or under chinese ideas a reaction to stress...but there are so many varied reasons why some woman choose to not breast feed beyond strictly 'the breast milk is bad' and I just can't deal with people making assumptions to what the reasons are and there validity....you know?

Anyways...I hope you get a bit where I'm coming from like I now do you....and I'm sorry if I made you feel like shit at work where you don't have the luxery of enjoying a chillaxing beer after getting fired up as I am doing now.

meow, meow, meow??

Back to demonizing vegans...I think thats where I first began to see red...hohoho. oops.

[phorbesie]

i think all the stuff you said before was true howler and didn't seem at all nasty, just informative. i totally agree that moms should not be judged one way or the other!

[Tricky]

wow ... i seem to know an odd amount of those 0.1%

hmmmmmm

me too. All of those signs mixed together is an allergic reaction to something external. Individuals just don't start rashes for no reason. Ear infections just don't 'decide' to come because it's time. People think that children's abnormal amount of ear infections, rashes, CONSTANT runny noses, is normal. Well, it is normal but it doesn't have to be. By avoiding products that cause the issues in the first place, the reaction will never occur. I just find it very strange that most people think these symptoms are 'just there' without cause, like it just happens somehow without a catalyst. just more ignorance.