Friggin' Kids These Days...

[phishtaper]

When I was in grade two a thirteen year old kid brought a gun to the school next to mine in a violin case. He killed a few other students and at least one teacher as I recall, before killing himself. Now, I was pretty young, but I beliave there was no policy change at schools following this, no metal detectors installed, no lockdown drills, etc.

"are you referring to the shooting at Centennial in Brampton?"

Part of my point is that I don't think I could be referring to any other incident. These things happen, but they happen extremely rarely.

im sorry, velvet. you are wrong. the Slobodian killings are recognized as THE turning point in Canadian firearms acquisition legislation. Prior to that, most anyone could purchase a gun, but resulting legislation required a number of safety controls.

the most tragic aspect of the shooting is that student John Slinger bled to death in a secluded washroom while his mother, an emergency room nurse, tended to the wounded elsewhere in the building. no plan was in place for a quick, complete search of the site. school board policy was changed as a result of this tragedy, prohibiting anyone from just walking into a school, and requiring all schools to develop an emergency response plan - one that would have saved John's life.

[Velvet]

• At what point can it be said it's likely there will be an incident?
  
• What are the warning signs that an incident is imminent?
  
• When it's decided that an incident is imminent or happening, what's an appropriate response, both from the police entering the situation, and from the students, faculty, and staff who are in (or near) the situation?
  

* Velvet, I disagree with you on at least one point: while school shootings may have been extremely rare in the 1970s and 1980s (I'd like to see the statistics; I might be wrong), there have been more, far too many, in recent years.

Two things Bradm:

1) How do you get those dots for your point list?

2) When things are advertised (be they pet rocks or school shootings) they get more popular. I would still guess that the mortality rate for Canadian schoolkids dying from school shootings is so small as to be almost unrecordable.

[ollie]

Here's a solution: arm teachers with guns.

[Kanada Kev]

Here's a solution: arm teachers with guns.

Shit ... you want my wife packing heat??? Now THAT'S dangerous!

[bradm]

[*]At what point can it be said it's likely there will be an incident?

[*]What are the warning signs that an incident is imminent?

[*]When it's decided that an incident is imminent or happening' date=' what's an appropriate response, both from the police entering the situation, and from the students, faculty, and staff who are in (or near) the situation?

[/list']

Two things Bradm:

1) How do you get those dots for your point list?

Do a "quote" on my post, and you should see it: it's a combination of "list" and "/list" codes (in square brackets) before and after the list entries, with "*" (again, in square brackets) at the start of each item. I think if you use "list=1" instead of just "list" at the start, you'll get a numbered (instead of bulleted [no pun intended]) list, and "list=a" will use letters instead of numbers.

Aloha,

Brad

[Velvet]

Don't be sorry that I'm wrong - I'm not. A really interesting point is not allowing just anyone to enter a school. I find that an interesting and enlightening point because I believe the shooter in the incident I'm referring to attended the school involved and thus had a right to be there. The reason I find this point interesting is how policies annoyingly seem to fall under the closing the barn door after the horses have fled sorta thing. It seems obvious to me that a guy off the street should not be able to just walk into a school, and I'm glad they stopped that possibility and am especially delighted they did it not as a response to it happening, but just as common sense.

It seems the policy changes you mentioned would register as basically invisible to the general student population and yet are sensible and workable ideas.

Emergency response plans are necessary. Prolonged in-house emergency prevention drills are not, in my opinion.

[Dr. J]

Part of the problem is when we respond the same whether we think it's a hoax or we think it's for real.

Having been in the position as a school principal, I agree with bradm that the first sign it's probably a hoax is the fact that there is a phone call at all and I also agreed with velvet that the less attention given the phone call the less likely it is to be repeated.

The problem was that Parent Councils and Teachers' Unions made it clearly known that they did not want administrators making the call - hoax or real - they wanted a response in ALL instances.

What we did at the time (grant it we were dealing with bomb scares rather gun scares) was to develop with the local police two repsonses - one to be used in a case of a perceived real danger and a much less intrusive one to be used in case of a suspected hoax. We explained both procedures to our teachers and parents who were, for the most part, fine with them.

Generating a relatively low level response (at least from the students' perspective) with little or no subsequent media coverge of course led to fewer and fewer and eventually no calls.

[phishtaper]

Don't be sorry that I'm wrong - I'm not.

oh dear. have a go at this, if you want to learn more about what actually happened, velvet.

[Dr. J]

Having said what I did I also wanted to say that my thoughts and concern are with CJ and all the kids and teachers who are going through this. No question, it's a most difficult thing. Hope it's behind you soon.

[Velvet]

Having said what I did I also wanted to say that my thoughts and concern are with CJ and all the kids and teachers who are going through this. No question, it's a most difficult thing. Hope it's behind you soon.

[mark tonin]

Although the risk of a "shooting" or crisis incident happening at a school in Canada is likely higher than it was 20 years ago, I personally don't think that the risk is that great.

I believe that we've gone overboard with lockdown drills and emergency response procedures, just as I believe that we've gone overboard with the war on terror.

I definitely expressed my concern after our lockdown last year. The lockdown caused a lot of stress, and could have led to a disaster if one of those police guns had been fired. In my opinion, there was no need for guns to be drawn; the response was extreme given the incident.

Our lockdown procedure was looked at and revised after the incident, hopefully for the better.

I wish I had time to write more, but I've got to head back to school for parent-teacher night.

Peace, Mark

[hamilton]

Here's a solution: arm teachers with guns.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but just days ago I read a story about a teacher in the US somewhere (I want to say Oregon, but I could just be making that up) who is suing the school board for not allowing her to bring her handgun to class. She claims that it is a violation of her rights.

I'll post the link if I can figure out where I read it.

[hamilton]

Here we are...

[mark tonin]

Here we are...

She should vote for this American legislator who wants to arm teachers and principals. Check out the story here.

Peace, Mark

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

So, guess who got yet another lockdown today?

[jayr]

Unbeleivable. All I remember worrying about in high school was if my teachers would catch me rolling joints in my desk during class. I dont actually remember (maybe because of the joints) more than a handful of cops ever even being in the school while I was student. Times sure have changed. The general paranoia of the times isnt going to get any better either.........

[geomouse]

Fuck fuck fuck Why alla time?

Who the fuck is on the button here anyhow? "A bunch of kids running through the hall with angry looks on their faces does not contitute an emergency" to the entire populace. (quote from high school staffer fortunate enough to sneak out a door DURING one of these situations).

How about a regular walk around the grounds, like any other institution in the 50's to see what the fuck is going on? I'm sorry for the situation. I really am. The regulation imposed on our teaching staff, admin, ems and other response teams will have been melted into 1984 for us all.

[paisley]

wonder where they get it from