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5 years for drunk driver


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i heard or saw something recently about some dude caught speeding or drunkdriving or whatever and turns out his license had been suspended for 10 years but when he got outta jail he simply applied for a new license and got it. he figured the suspension had been lifted because, well, they gave him a license. 'oops', said the MoT bureaucrat.

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There has just been a case in Kingston where some jack ass was released from prison after spending 3.5 years for killing 4 people will drinking and driving.

He was also given a life time license ban. A month or so ago he was found to in the process of getting his license again under another name.

They have given him another 15 months in prison.

So he basically gets 5 years for 4 deaths...


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The guy's a killer not a murderer.

Although the crime is murder, he probably didn't get drunk and intend to kill that specific person.

Are you serious Rob?

If the same guy got drunk and shot someone or got drunk and beat someone to death or got drunk and pushed someone off a cliff does that change your view of things?

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pushing someone off a cliff is an intentional act of shoving rather than merely knocking them off because they're clumsy. not intentional. not murder. Candians want retribution and someone to be fully accountable and pay dearly for improper action...Murder sounds better and keeps us satisfied.

shooting is pulling the trigger...now say they were at the shooting range and he was wasted and forgot to lower his arms and stop continually shooting while turning around...that's about the only way that could be compared, Sharon.

I'm not in any way definding drunk driving but I do think it's important to truly understand the concept of murder and the approach we have to logic. Although the system in place that most people have works and fosters morality, it's the tiny details that open up hige rifts between reality and societally-imposed logic.

He still killed them. He was a stupid fucker for getting behind the wheel drunk.

Now...say it were a different story...say he happened to be drunk and got into an accident but it wasn't his fault - he'd be branded with the same iron that a drunk driver that actually plowed someone down. In THAT case the guy that was inebriated (wrongfully, but perhaps not at fault in the accident) has 'murderer' hanging over his head (even if he didn't hurt anyone in the accident) Does anyone truly deserve to have that hanging over their head (even if they hang it there themselves) when if it's not their fault that they got t-boned going through a green light?

Perhaps it's not crucial that true objectivity be exercised at all times but many people succumb to their emotions while trying to apply logic to a situation.

People die every day. Loss is unfortunate. We must move on fairly and justly. Retribution must be done properly and although there's no heavier sentence than 'murder', it is entirely unfortunate that many of the sentences we have are not heftier. Manslaughter (aggraved manslaughter?? someone help me out here) could definitely carry heavier sentencing.

thanks, QQC - Call it murder if you wish but it's not murder and we all deserve to be dealt a fair hand.

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Note that intent is only a requirement for first-degree murder (and even then, all that's needed is intent to kill; exactly who gets killed, and whether the killed person was the killer's intended victim, is immaterial). Other kinds of murder, like second-degree murder, don't require intent, but just something like reckless disregard for life.



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Just to fill in what I wrote:



Basic elements

In common law jurisdictions, murder has two elements or parts:

1. the act (actus reus) of killing a person

2. the state of mind (mens rea) of intentional, purposeful, malicious, premeditated, and/or wanton.

While murder is often expressed as the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought", this element of malice may not be required in every jurisdiction (for example, see the French definition of murder below).

* The element of malice aforethought can be satisfied by an intentional killing, which is considered express malice.

* Malice can also be implied: deaths that occur by any recklessness or during certain serious crimes are considered to be implied malice murders.

Further, from


First and second degree

In Canada, murder is classified as either first or second degree.[29]

1. First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation. [30]

2. Second degree murder is all murder which is not first degree murder.



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so that's the breakdown of the crime, but the definition of a person as murderer or killer is really what this is.

Someone that steals isn't necessarily a thief.

Someone that gets in a fight isn't necessarily a brawler

someone that plays guitar isn't necessarily a musician.

Someone that uses heroin isn't necessarily a junkie.

I guess it depends on how you label people...



a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being)

Roget's II: The New Thesaurus

Main Entry: murderer

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: One who murders another.

Synonyms: butcher, cutthroat, homicide, killer, manslayer, massacrer, murderess, slaughterer, slayer, triggerman

Synonym Collection v1.1

Main Entry: murderer

Part of Speech: noun

Synonyms: assassin, criminal, executioner, killer, slaughterer, slayer

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind...but it's only fair to recognize that the act of murdering someone and committing the crime of murder are different...

Depending on the dictionary and the breadth of the explanation you demand from a dictionary, a murderer can be someone that commits murder but it's more than definitions and blame when we're talking about the passing of a life.

After all, we're supposed to rehabilitate these killers so they can come out of jail as a functional member of society.

Writing them off would lead them right back to the bottle and every time that happens and you read about a repeat offender just think of the essence of your thoughts and how your intentions are very powerful unless of course you're an atheist.

I'm not. There's something more important than the rules of man and THAT is the reason to not want to plow someone down with your car or cause harm to others.

A careless act of ignorance and apathy is not a vicious, destructive, ruthless, evil one.

that's why it's second degree murder...because there is logic involved in handing down a sentence - adding moral weight to carelessness.

But to let it all get out of hand and attest that this person intended to kill someone when s/he drove drunk is a stretch and that's where your personal definition of murderer comes into play.

that is, of course, assuming your definitions are personal...which it certainly seems.

I try to be a bit more neutral about it.

It lessens my murderous cravings.

Otherwise I wouldn't be drunk when I'd be driving the car that'd plow him down when he's riding his bike to work. THAT would be murder and as much as some people think it's a logical bit of retribution, Nobody needs that.

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I'm glad that bradm is thinking here and posting the definitions that most of us understand.

i can't believe that a JOYSTICK is coming to the defence of a guy that took out a girl with his truck just so he could spend his cab money on one last dance by a stripper.

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I'm not defending anybody Mike just discussing labels and attachment.

He was careless and acted unjustly but his actions don't line up with 'murderer'

he didn't intend to take her out with his truck, but I think his sentencing is far too light.

Pretty understandable conclusion for a EIGHTH GRADER though so I can't take it so hard.

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no need to jump on him, he has a very valid point.

yes he killed a girl, yes he was wrong, yes he deserves a lot of time behind bars, much more than he got.

But I doubt he got drunk and said, lets go driving and kill a kid. mind you you may argue that the fact that he decided to drive drunk while knowing that killing someone could be a consequence of driving drunk could constitute intent.

but thats for the court to decide.

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