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"There’s a delicious irony of seeing private luxury jets flying into DC, and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands, saying that they’re going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses. It’s almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. Kind makes you a little bit suspicious as to whether or not…we’ve seen the future. There’s a message there. Couldn’t you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled to get here? It would have at least sent the message that you do get it."

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Well, commercial airlines are pretty expensive these days and a HUGE pain in the ass. And now that major airlines are merging with one another, regular schedules are changing and flights that took place regularly before, don't anymore. I'm not condoning the use of private jets, just saying I bet these are things thought about when one has the money and decides to fly privately.

Jet-pooling's a great idea. I guess Bombardier makes a pretty eco-friendly jet... as eco-friendly as private jets get.

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I think what this proves is the need for a restructuring.

It's unfortunate that 100's of thousands of people could potentially lose their jobs because their bosses are pompous pricks.

I'm in no way saying that it is alright for these guys to be using jets, in fact I think it is disgusting (especially considering the fact that they are begging for money here). BUT, I really hope that their ineptness and inability to 'get it' would cost the job of even one employee, other than themselves.

The main thing we need to be looking for here is change. Let's tone down the greed, let's cut back on expenses, and let's think of the big picture a bit.

Will this happen?

Probably not.

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pulled over by the grammar police
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i think the companies should get bailed out (however that would happen, i gots no idea) provided that all of the CEOs, who got them into this mess, have to take a 100% pay cut.

these jetset CEOs work for free for two years. make them personally responsible.

and in the meantime, shove money into the companies, and try to save everyone's jobs. bottom line, these companies have to change and change fast.

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You could hold back salaries for all executives at all the Big Three automakers for the next ten years and it wouldn't make a measurable bit of difference. There's a reason GM, Ford and Chrysler are on Capital Hill begging for bailout money while companies like Toyota and Honda are poised to emerge as industry leaders once the economy rebounds. It has nothing to do with better quality vehicles or executive compensation or environmentally friendly products.

The legacy of greed within labour unions and their unwaivering stance that they'll not make concessions under any circumstances is what's caused this mess. It's time to burst the union bubble. The $30 or $35 an hour a line worker gets to attach a bumper to a Ford Focus is overvalued. The full ride health care plans that follow retirees and their families to their graves have bled these companies dry.

Deny the bailout request. Force the Big Three into bankruptcy and shatter existing union contracts into a million pieces. $25 billion dollars won't go far without bottom to top restructuring of labour agreements. It's easy to look at executives and place blame but the real root cause here is the union rank and file membership and their misguided representatives.

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These CEOs and other upper management were ultimately responsible for the direction of their companies and their products. Analysts have been saying for years that these three companies have been driving towards disaster by continuing to focus on the manufacture of large, wasteful vehicles, especially SUVs. Apart from a couple of big selling, small pickups, the Big Three has been out of the top ten game for years now. Toyota, Honda and Nissan (all making some cars right here in North America as well, so don't claim this is the union's fault) aren't flying into Washington with a tin cup because they have been managed properly. Ford, GM and Chrysler have been managed into the ground. A CBC report from June said, "While Detroit was rolling out one giant SUV after another, Japan was busy churning out gas-electric hybrids." Duh.

Of course, the CEOs' salaries are trivial compared to the massive debt incurred by their companies. Forcing them to salvage their companies without pay is symbolic. But it makes them personally accountable for their lack of foresight and mismanagement - mismanagement that will likely cause untold layoffs and drive the US economy deeper into rece(depre)ssion while they still collect their huge salaries, bonuses and get to play in the stock market.

They applied an outdated business model in a new world and they lost. Now, make them personally accountable before a single penny flows their way.

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These CEOs and other upper management were ultimately responsible for the direction of their companies and their products. Analysts have been saying for years that these three companies have been driving towards disaster by continuing to focus on the manufacture of large, wasteful vehicles, especially SUVs. Apart from a couple of big selling, small pickups, the Big Three has been out of the top ten game for years now. Toyota, Honda and Nissan (all making some cars right here in North America as well, so don't claim this is the union's fault) aren't flying into Washington with a tin cup because they have been managed properly. Ford, GM and Chrysler have been managed into the ground. A CBC report from June said, "While Detroit was rolling out one giant SUV after another, Japan was busy churning out gas-electric hybrids." Duh.

Of course, the CEOs' salaries are trivial compared to the massive debt incurred by their companies. Forcing them to salvage their companies without pay is symbolic. But it makes them personally accountable for their lack of foresight and mismanagement - mismanagement that will likely cause untold layoffs and drive the US economy deeper into rece(depre)ssion while they still collect their huge salaries, bonuses and get to play in the stock market.

They applied an outdated business model in a new world and they lost. Now, make them personally accountable before a single penny flows their way.

... we can always use a little more cowbell

The big three have been rolling out SUVs and big trucks for years now because that's what the consumer has DEMANDED of them. These gas-guzzlers were where their sales were, and laissez-faire economics permitted Ford, GM and Chrysler to be fully at the helm of consumer demand. This situation is the result of our (in a general sense) needs and wants as a society, our shallow thinking, our mismanagement of the environment. To solely blame CEOs and upper management for this is shallow thinking.

Because of this, i think there needs to be a bailout. It's our society that caused this - from the perspective that we thought Avalanches were cool, that we allowed unions to become so big with little consideration for what's affordable and what's not, and because we invested whole-heartedly in laissez-faire economics as THE way. Collectively we profited and collectively we lost.

(I'm generalizing here just to show the overall state of North American society.)

I think it's in all of our best interest to recognize that we're in this together, obviously blame is going to be laid, but it should be laid around the entire table. Noone is really better than the next. The bailout should happen because of this, but in this bailout a new economic philosophy of fiscal and environmental responsibility should be born. And a full acceptance that capitalism if left to itself, will ultimately self-destruct.

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i think you've missed a point or two, Birdy.

"While Detroit was rolling out one giant SUV after another, Japan was busy churning out gas-electric hybrids."

Not to labour the point but if Japan had been manufacturing to meet this DEMAND you speak of, they'd be in the same boat as the Yanks, why are they not?

answer: because their CEOs and upper management had the foresight to realise that this DEMAND was going to shift, and shift quickly

Edited by Guest
ajsdbgjkbsdfa
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I didn't miss a point or two, the fiscal realities the big three were facing were shite. They built SUVs and trucks, etc. because of the need for money and to meet the unruly demands of their unions. Unfortunately for these companies acting on foresight could have had the potential to bring their demise even sooner.

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Because of this, i think there needs to be a bailout. It's our society that caused this - from the perspective that we thought Avalanches were cool, that we allowed unions to become so big with little consideration for what's affordable and what's not, and because we invested whole-heartedly in laissez-faire economics as THE way. Collectively we profited and collectively we lost...

And a full acceptance that capitalism if left to itself, will ultimately self-destruct.

Why the hell did you vote Conservative then?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WTF?

"The fundamentals of the Canadian economy are sound and stable" - Paraphrase of the campaign rhetoric supported by your vote.

we're guilty of shallow thinking, eh?

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Your paraphrase is incorrect.

Read the newspaper or watch tv and check out how a conservative government has the ability to roll with this most recent death blow to free market economies, just like everyone else has had to do. If you wanna polarize conservatives and assume that they don't have it in their power to recognize a failure when they see it, I won't be able to change your mind.

Likewise for the NDP and their support of the unions.

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Read the newspaper or watch tv and check out how a conservative government has the ability to roll with this most recent death blow to free market economies, just like everyone else has had to do. If you wanna polarize conservatives and assume that they don't have it in their power to recognize a failure when they see it, I won't be able to change your mind.

Hasn't the last 8 years of conservative government in the USA contributed largely to the economic crisis?

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The big threee US auto makers have blown through 1/2 trillion dollars in the last decade. Does anyone think a 25 Billion dollar bail out is going to save them at this point?

They need to restructured from the ground up. They need fewer product lines, better management, new union deals... it's not an easy problem to fix and it may cause 1 or 2 of them going out of business to really make a change.

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