Food Policy

[berk]

The following article is fairly long, but well worth the read. It outlines how a reform of the entire food system could address our concerns with health care, energy independence and climate change.

If anything, it clarifies how government policies contributed to current practices in agricultural/food business, and helps to explain rising cost of food. Enjoy!

Michael Pollan's open letter to the president-elect!

[bradm]

Thanks for the link; it's an interesting article.

I saw a piece on CBS Sunday Morning this past weekend about urban agriculture: taking over un- or dis-used spaces in cities and turning them into small-scale farms, and it occurred to me that that kind of thing would be a great type of "infrastructure" project. Unlike, say, bridge-building (or building-building), it can be done by low-skilled or un-trained labour (even recovering addicts and homeless people); can provide products to the low end (food banks), middle end (farmers' markets), and high end (gourmet restaurants); can help improve the quality of urban spaces; can help reduce greenhouse gas emissions (as the food isn't trucked into the city); and can foster community involvement. (I wonder if some kind of credit system for donated compostible materials could be worked out: for every, say, 10 lbs of compostible material you bring in, you get 1 lb of produce free. A special tax credit for businesses who purchase products from urban gardens would also help, I think.) It can also promote biodiversity (especially if gourmet restaurants become customers). I remember hearing how Cuba faced a problem after the collapse of the Soviet Union, as their mass agriculture system relied heavily on imports of Soviet fertilizer. Their solution was to switch to a large number of community gardens, and I think they're reasonably self-sufficient now.

Aloha,

Brad

[Freak By Night]

That sounds like socialism, Brad. It'll never fly!

[SaggyBalls]

it is a huge part of the Green Party's platform.

[SaggyBalls]

I wonder how many people would opt to buy local goods if they knew that part of the money they spent on their food might fund Zionism.

[d_rawk]

oh COME ON!

Dude, is there a particular certification agency that you are concerned about? Isolate that symbol, show us, and present the case against them.

[Thorgnor]

or just continue being anti-semitic, I hear chicks dig it.

[hamilton]

I'm waiting for the post that says that products with a halal symbol must be going to support anti-American madrassas in Pakistan.

[Thorgnor]

nicer still sir, please, after you.

[SaggyBalls]

How am I being Anti-Semitic?

[d_rawk]

Dude, you are one of the greatest, thoughtful people ever - it does have at least the appearance though that you've swallowed some anti-Semitic bait. Ever see "Mr. Death"?

[SaggyBalls]

"I'm waiting for the post that says that products with a halal symbol must be going to support anti-American madrassas in Pakistan."

Maybe it does, but Kosher meat can still be slaughtered carrion and improperly drained, unlike Halal. Sure the animal's unconscious for the letting, compared to Halal where the heart is still beating (is fear filled meat or rotting blood worse?), but over time these Kosher symbols are becoming less and less particular and more and more meaningless.

After all, they're meaningless for almost every non-kosher individual. Most people have no idea what a little tiny MK means and it's most often of no interest.

I think Halal means more to more muslims than the Kosher symbols do to most Jews.

Why bring it up?

Because that article deals a lot with intending more for our food, our bodies, our economies, our environment, and our nourishment.

Imagine if the revenues that were made from Kosher symbols were pumped into local agriculture or awarded to small farmers.

That would be an amazing way to give back to the people that make the food we eat and would improve our communities.

[SaggyBalls]

are you talking about me, d_jango?

[d_rawk]

I was, yeah.

[SaggyBalls]

I wasn't being anti-semitic.

But it's funny how anything not totally on side with all things jewish is automatically seen as being anti-semitic.

Is it the word 'Zionism'?

Any nation that supports Israel is a Zionist state. Is that a bad thing?

[d_rawk]

Not word, the contextualization (or lack of context, I guess)

"I wonder how many people would opt to buy local goods if they knew that part of the money they spent on their food might fund Zionism."

People may think that it might, but they would be making, first of all, an awful lot of assumptions about jews.

[SaggyBalls]

It's great how the word Zionism breeds a lot of awful assumptions.

[d_rawk]

My mistake. I didn't realize all Jews could so easily be cast into an identical homogeneous political view, regardless of that view's merit, or lack of. Or how it had anything to do with food certification.

[SaggyBalls]

They can't.

which makes this subject so touchy.

More and more Kosher doesn't have to do with Food Certification, as more kosher slaughterhouses are using bolts to kill their cattle instead of letting them while alive, leaving blood in the beast.

More and more unhealthy products have the Kosher symbols even though there's nothing holy about the food or its ingredients.

Semitic Semantics.

[Thorgnor]

I think Halal means more to more muslims than the Kosher symbols do to most Jews.

I'm glad you feel comforatable speaking for all of them all at once this way, it shows how much you've thought about this.

[SaggyBalls]

A higher percentage of Muslims are strictly Halal, TB.

You're really grasping at straws here Buddy.

[Thorgnor]

Where is this so? Which Muslims? Why is allowing people the right to access the food their faith allows them an economic issue for you. There's no straws here, buddy. This argument just sucks.

More and more unhealthy products have the Kosher symbols even though there's nothing holy about the food or its ingredients.

Semitic Semantics.

Are you Jewish? Semitic semantics are frankly none of your business if you aren't. And I'm not, and I'm out.

[SaggyBalls]

Good 'ol TB sure gets fiery, eh?

Who's to tell me what to bring to discussion? I'm not saying that we should abolish it or that it's entirely wrong...but I do think that it's unfortunate that as a whole society we water a lot of things down in the name of fairness and inclusive consumerism - and that goes for Jews and Gentiles alike.

But to answer the question, 'Where is this so??' In the UK, in North America...so a lot of places this is so. I don't remember the article/poll, but I did read some figures that indicated such.

[d_rawk]

But to answer the question, 'Where is this so??' In the UK, in North America...so a lot of places this is so. I don't remember the article/poll, but I did read some figures that indicated such.

I suspect (and I haven't done any numbers on this, 'cause, heck, it's late!) that the numbers of strictly Halal Muslims in NA and the UK vs. the numbers of strictly and sometimes observantly Kosher Jews in NA and the UK would weigh the market incentive more squarely towards the Jewish portion (percentage vs. population). Particularly when taking into consideration specialty shops vs. national grocers.

Not to mention that in many cases 'kosher' and 'halal' overlap, so the labelling actually serves both communities in very many (though certainly not all) circumstances. [there are movements which draw wider or narrower differences, as would be expected within any disparate, diverse communities]

The troubling thing is why, this, the kosher labelling of foods, was posited as the central topic of conversation rather than an example of what is now being suggested as the more general concern? The ground of the debate seems to be ever shifting as objections to the premise are raised.

Why is Zionism even part of the conversation? Is the concern kosher certification or inclusive consumerism? How does 'inclusive consumerism' happen? How did we start out at one place and end up at another? (Bonus: can I ask any more rhetoricals in a single paragraph?)

I am not sure of the source of the picture + text that you initially posted, but my strong suspicion is that the source had, at heart, an agenda which was at root anti-semitic. If these other larger issues are actually the crux of it, then let's get at those, but then why make an emblem of kosher certification symbols specifically to kick it off?

[SaggyBalls]

I googled 'kosher symbols' and clicked 'images'

I think it was from a jewish website, but i agree that it could have been from an anti semitic website, and me mentioning 'zionism' was really baiting you folks even if it was a tiny bit...which kind of makes sense if people can put those 2 things together and come out with a presumption...but where is that presumption rooted?

As a general topic of concern, a vague one, much like a grapefruit, juices can flow from this fruit under pressure. Unlike the whole grapefruit with the bitter rind and pith, the juice is sweet and refreshing - a great way for one to alkalize his or her body.

Just like positive forward moving discussion.

Maybe grapefruit always tasted bitter to you but it's not like i'm dropping pith in your mouth.

in many cases kosher and halal overlap, and even the small percentage of the population that keep kosher (strict or not, it's still kosher) and Halal would deem the certification to be profitable since there's more of a potential for a jewish boycott than a stubborn pissy non-jewish boycott.

What frustrates me more about food packaging symbols is 'organic' which has little to no legal standing and might be totally meaningless in some cases.

Which is about on par with some 'Kosher' products.

What debate? I'm not trying to debate. This is a discussion forum, not a debate forum.

If it were a debate forum it would be in private one on one emails or the forum would be in a thread style.

I'd much rather discuss things than debate them.

Which probably explains a lot about the way people react in here.

It's pretty f'n tedious sometimes.