"Economic Update"

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Fucking Conservatives.

Jean and Ed to the rescue?

[Birdy]

fucking confidence motion too!

i honestly thought they'd be done with this bullshit. seriously!

Is a coalition government in the cards?

Norman Spector, today at 8:12 AM EST

I think not, for three reasons:

1. CP reports this morning that both the Bloc and NDP have signalled that they wouldn't take part in a coalition if it meant installing Stéphane Dion as prime minister.

2. Even if the Liberals can work out their leadership problem _ a big if, with egos the size of Ignatieff and Rae involved - do they really want to be responsible for leading Canada through a recession while hitched to the NDP, with all that this could mean for their brand? And vice versa?

3. Contrary to the CP report, La Presse reports this morning that the Bloc has ruled out participating in a coalition government. However, it's conceivable that they could agree to support the government - in a way similar to what happened in Ontario in 1985.

In that instance, however, outgoing Conservative Premier Frank Miller had recommended to the LG that he call on Liberal David Peterson to form a government in association with the NDP. And those two parties together had a majority in the legislature. Finally, as the LG was able to verify, the NDP had signed an accord with the Liberals, in which it promised to support them in government for two years.

Even if all these conditions were met, would the Liberals and the NDP really want the survival of their thin minority government to depend on the Bloc Québécois - a party committed to breaking up Canada?

[Thorgnor]

No agenda here.

[SaggyBalls]

Isn't the success of THIS minority government dependant on the Bloc?

So what?

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Harper backed off on the political party subsidy issue.

[SaggyBalls]

Ushering in funding for another election?

[Birdy]

It's hidden agenda, the sequel!

I would think it's probably more out of fear of a coalition government.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Guest

[M.O.B.E]

Another step in the wrong direction. Canada can't socially or economically afford to have another election.

The way I'm seeing this, its like the are de-stablizing the moral and financial state of the people of Canada with a purpose. I'll get back to you when I figure out what and why they would be pushing us in this direction.

Whatever happened to "Responsible Government"?

If we get pushed to another election I can't see my city coming out the other end without major damage control being needed. Its already starting to look like Flint here.

I don't know but I been told

if the horse don't pull you got to carry the load

I don't know whose back's that strong

Maybe find out before too long

One way or another

One way or another

One way or another

this darkness got to give

[boiler]

They should make the coalition anyway. Isn't that what Canadians really want anyway?

62% of the popular vote in the last election was for parties other than the PC's. About 54% voted for those three parties. Harper is a false Prime Minister (but then again so will anybody else)

Why can't these three parties simply propose their own budget before commons and then vote it in?

[Birdy]

54% didn't vote for a coalition, they voted for three entirely different, individual parties.

[SaggyBalls]

"Canada can't socially or economically afford to have another election. "

How can you prove that?

Perhaps we can. You're just presuming that we're almost out of money - there's always a lot of money SOMEWHERE and Canada's always been good at finding it.

"54% didn't vote for a coalition, they voted for three entirely different, individual parties."

But they voted for 3 entirely different parties to get something accomplished.

I think you're just being stubborn.

[Birdy]

How so?

You can't say what 54% of the voters were thinking when they cast their votes. The only thing you can say is that 'they voted for three different, individual parties".

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

so much for the reasonable harper that showed up rightafter the election. he's back to being mister nasty politician. and he's fucking brilliant in that job. fuck the country, politics comes first.

[boiler]

How so?

You can't say what 54% of the voters were thinking when they cast their votes. The only thing you can say is that 'they voted for three different, individual parties".

Well, 54% voted on the left, so in a way, yeah we can sorta know what they were thinking.

I think this is a really good day for Canada. We've entrusted our opposition to be the watch-dogs of the conservative party, they saw the conservatives fucking up and they are now doing exactly what they should be doing.

BTW: I've just heard on the news that Dion will be the leader of the coalition for now.

[Schwa.]

3 words....two party system

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Harper to hold news conference at 5:15 Eastern

[boiler]

Harper to hold news conference at 5:15 Eastern

hmm, delay tactics. I can't see how Harper can argue against two parties forming a coalition, when that's exactly what they have done in the past.

[bradm]

Harper to hold news conference at 5:15 Eastern

hmm' date=' delay tactics. I can't see how Harper can argue against two parties forming a coalition, when that's exactly what they have done in the past.[/quote']

I caught a bit of the conference, and Harper said that it would be wrong for the Liberals and NDP to coalesce, because they had said during the election that they wouldn't form a coalition. (In other words, the issue is more the opposition parties doing [or not doing] what they said they'd do [or not do], rather than a coalition per se being a bad thing.)

Aloha,

Brad

[d_rawk]

Probably the BQ becomes a major factor in the debate.

Conservatives - 143 seats

Liberals + NDP combined - 114 seats

(29 seat spread)

Bloc Quebecois - 49 seats

[hamilton]

Harper to hold news conference at 5:15 Eastern

hmm' date=' delay tactics. I can't see how Harper can argue against two parties forming a coalition, when that's exactly what they have done in the past.[/quote']

I caught a bit of the conference, and Harper said that it would be wrong for the Liberals and NDP to coalesce, because they had said during the election that they wouldn't form a coalition. (In other words, the issue is more the opposition parties doing [or not doing] what they said they'd do [or not do], rather than a coalition per se being a bad thing.)

Aloha,

Brad

Gee, imagine that. Politicians not keeping their word. Kind of like when Peter McKay promised David Orchard that if he supported him for the PC leadership that he wouldn't merge with the Canadian Alliance, and then doing exactly that within a day of winning the party leadership?

Shocking, really. Who would have expected politicians to be dishonest? Or to change their minds about things?

[Birdy]

i know this is going to come across as biased, as I have been typically the stand-alone CP supporter around here, but let me just preclude it by saying: I think the 'economic update' sucks, and totally think Flaherty has missed the mark and failed to realize what pretty much the whole world is realizing about capitalism, and am really tired of the CP trying to annihilate the Liberals like they're a death squad (i even sent an email to my MP about this), but I do agree with Harper when he says this:

“The opposition has every right to defeat the government, but Stéphane Dion does not have the right to take power without an election,†Mr. Harper said. “Canada's government should be decided by Canadians, not backroom deals. It should be your choice – not theirs.â€

I know, i know, the CP is certainly not guilt-free of backroom dealings, but there is some truth to this statement.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Guest

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Well, it's not a "right", but it's within the rules. Plus it likely won't be Dion if this coalition thing ever comes to fruition (which it won't).

[Birdy]

I hope it won't. I didn't ever imagine they'd take it as far as they've taken it, but I was quickly proven wrong about that.

It is within the rules, I know. It just seems so shitty to me. It'll be a very sticky, unprecedented situation if it comes about. I fear for the Libs that they'll lose some of their traditional supporters. Some Libs hate the NDP just as much as some Cons hate the Libs.

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Gotta remember too that so far it's been all talk, no real action has been taken. Politicians talk and threaten etc etc all the time.

[boiler]

Gotta remember too that so far it's been all talk, no real action has been taken. Politicians talk and threaten etc etc all the time.

There's been a LOT of action so far.

Tories back away from slashing political funding

Updated: Sat Nov. 29 2008 7:07:56 PM

CTV.ca News Staff

The Conservatives have backed away from a contentious proposal to slash public funding for political parties, potentially defusing a political standoff that could have led to a Tory defeat in Parliament.

"I don't think it's worth going into an election over this political subsidy," Transport Minister John Baird told CTV Newsnet Saturday.

The proposed Tory policy, announced as part of the government's fall fiscal update, caused a firestorm earlier this week and raised the possibility that opposition parties would cobble together a coalition to oust the Conservatives from power.

The opposition parties have been in talks to do just that since Thursday, when Finance Minister Jim Flaherty delivered his fiscal update to the House of Commons.

The fall fiscal update also raised the ire of opposition MPs because it lacked an economic stimulus package and instead focused on cost-saving measures, including a plan to cut $27 million in annual taxpayer subsidies to the political parties.

The move was interpreted by the opposition as a sign the Harper government was trying to financially cripple the other parties.

But Baird said that the Tories were aiming to "lead by example" by tightening government spending at a time when Canadians are facing an economic slowdown.

A spokesman for Harper said the Conservatives will make another announcement on Sunday, which political observers expect will include further conciliatory measures.

However, it wasn't clear Saturday if the Conservative change of heart was enough to defuse the situation and stop the opposition from banding together.

"We've just been meeting as a group, and our focus is the economy (and) making sure that we do what's best for Canadians," said NDP MP Paul Dewar.

The Liberals were also pushing for an economic aid package from the government.

"The Conservatives just don't get it," said Liberal house leader Ralph Goodale in a media release.

"What Canadians want from their government is a plan to help protect their jobs, their homes and prevent their hard-earned savings from disappearing."

Meanwhile, the gamble to cut down his political rivals may have backfired on Harper, said CTV's chief parliamentary correspondent Craig Oliver.

He added that with the Conservatives backing down, the opposition parties have become strengthened.

"They realize, in a way that they didn't before, that they are in a position to bring this government down and take power without an election."

However, Oliver stressed that the coalition would have been a messy one, and would have required all of the parties to make major concessions.

A coalition would likely include support from, rather than full participation of, the Bloc Quebecois.

Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean would then have to decide on whether the coalition should be given a chance to govern, or if she should dissolve Parliament and send Canadians to a second election in less than two months.

On Friday, Harper delayed a non-confidence vote on the economic package by one week. He has derided the opposition attempts to form a coalition, despite trying to do the same thing in 2004 to oust Paul Martin and his liberal minority.

In an interview with CTV Newsnet, Democracy Watch's Duff Conacher said Harper and his Conservatives are playing political roulette.

"The opposition has called his bluff, because they know he doesn't really have a strong hand," he said, adding that the Tories only captured 37 per cent of the popular vote in the last election.

"He doesn't have that strong hand, and he's done a very poorly timed, aggressive, highly partisan and ideological move with his fiscal update."

"They went too far as they usually do, and they've poked the opposition parties in the eye."