18 new Conservative senators?

[SmoothedShredder]

Geez, the senate is still like 70 Liberal Senators to 30 Conservatives. The guy is like the Prime Minister... he's kind of allowed to do this. If you don't like it, maybe you should lobby your own parties to actually have some of your senators show up for work once-in-a-while.

The bigger crime is not having an elected senate, and having an absentee rate over 50%... and we call ourselves a democracy. Stevie is trying to fix it.... I mean can anyone here argue why we SHOULDN'T have an elected senate?

Since it's the most powerful house of parliament, that's really pathetic... you can't really blame the Cons for it either... if your looking for a scapegoat here... look at the reds. This is where Canadians get their attitude of entitlement from (or atleast where it is represented the most in our government)

Oh yeah, I forgot, no matter what Steve does it's wrong... and evil.

[AD]

But there's a legitimate issue with Stevie making patronage appointments while he doesn't have the confidence of the House.

The make up of the Senate is

38 Cons

58 Libs

3 PC

1 INDP

5 Independent

[ollie]

Mike Duffy is a senator? How many other pawns does Harper have in the media then?

[can-o-phish]

Stevie is trying to fix it.... I mean can anyone here argue why we SHOULDN'T have an elected senate?

Ahhh, don't know about you but none of these folks were "elected"...they were appointed by "L'il Stevie Wonder" who did an abrupt 180 degree switch against his previous stance of "electing" the senate...did you miss that???

He also did this at a time when he prorogued Parliament because it's the only way he could have made this happen but during a time when a "responsible government" should be trying to run the country, not shatter it further.

I'm not against the Cons but Harper, IMHO, is a FUKWAD EXTRODINAIRE!!!

If he continues down this road he will be out on his ass after January 27th.

My thoughts are that when Harper and the GG had their little chat and she asked all to leave except Stevie she told him that if he lost confidence in January and a coalition was ready to step in she would consider this as a viable option as spending another $300 Million during this economic crisis would further anger Canadians...but that's just a guess...

[AD]

i don't like harper, but here are a few points that make sense to me

re: his electing the senate stance - bills to enact an elected senate have either been defeated or have died on the order paper, so you could say that Harper is fulfilling the will of the people by going along with what the majority of MPs want (un-elected) according to the actions of the House. Are you saying he shouldn't do this?

Also, adults are allowed to change their minds. Politicians seem to get nailed on this all the time (even by me) but they can do this.

Annnnnnd, see my previous posts about how the Senate wasn't functioning with all the empty seats. It may or may not be correct, but if you have a 6 cylinder car and only 4 cylinders are working, that's not how it was designed.

[can-o-phish]

All good points AD.

Yes, of course, adults & children have a right to change their minds, free will and all of that good stuff...

But it's hard to ignore what has just transpired after Harper prorogued Parliament because he knew he would have lost confidence...he's TCOB as fast as he can as one can only assume at this point that the coalition is still in place and will shred apart whatever the Cons offer on January 27th.

And again, instead of tackling the bigger issue of the crumbling economy, Harper appointed 18 senate seats at $130,400 each...that must be comforting to the folks who are being laid off and losing their jobs...and yes, it's better to have an engine firing on all cylinders but when there is no car to power because it has been put out to pasture for 8 weeks while the body crumbles, what's the point???

At the time the general population were more likely to vote in a majority Conservative party than have Dion at the helm of a coalition supported by the Bloc Harper chose to prorogue Parliament and hang on for another couple of months...how much more damage can be done as even though he is within all legal means to do what he's done it has created further mistrust of a non-functioning government...

[SmoothedShredder]

So who's got my heady, WE SHOULDN'T ELECT THE SENATE, argument?

And name calling doesn't really fit into my idea of a 'sound' argument.

If you're surprised why no one is picketing 24 sussex, why don't you go down and do it yourself instead of expecting others to do it for you. Your apathetic stance is getting pretty pathetic. Thankfully I don't have that resolve.

[SmoothedShredder]

Fack... look out the window... there are cars and people going to work right?

Go to the grocery store, you can still get food right?

Turn on the light switch... there's light right?

House cold? Turn on the heat... it magically gets warmer right?

And when the election comes I think the overall backlash against the powergrabbing opposition is going to hurt them more than it's going to hurt Harpers PC's for actually figuring out a way to stop it. Deal with it... I know Harper is... it's not pretty, but your predictions of a PC backlash over this is probably going to be overshadowed by the backlash on the other side(s)

Seems like things are working fairly well in Canada...

Got my liscence renewed... new Health Card in the mail... fucking roads are okay, and plowed right after the snow... there's little there to suggest that this is a non-funciton argument.

Fucking hyperbole fear-mongers.

[ollie]

Fucking hyperbole fear-mongers.

You obviously prefer sarcasm.

[djmelbatoast]

I don't think we should elect the senate. I think it should be abolished. If the senate were elected it would throw the power structure in Ottawa into disarray. If both MP's and Senators were elected who would be the leader of the country? PM or Senate Majority Leader? It's one step towards the Americanization of the Canadian parliamentary system. Just get rid of the whole thing.

[SmoothedShredder]

Now there's an idea DJ... could be an interesting efficiency... sounds far more democratic IMHO, but good luck getting that through the Senate! It could happen some day though.

And Ollie, do you ever have anything to say that amounts to more than a one-liner? No sarcasm in that statement, rather frustration at a discourse that doesn't focus on the issues, more the ego's involved in shaping those issues.

[AD]

dj, you're worried about throwing the power structure into disarray - wouldn't abolishing one of the two houses of parliament do exactly that?

[AD]

So who's got my heady, WE SHOULDN'T ELECT THE SENATE, argument?

Will, I can sense you're in a bad mood, and this isn't my argument per say as I really haven't thought enough about this, but there are hundreds of years of British Parliamentary 'common law' and tradition that would serve as a good argument for keeping things the way they are wrt the Senate.

The Canadian Parliament was based on the Westminster model (that is, the model of the Parliament of the United Kingdom). The Senate was intended to mirror the British House of Lords, in that it was meant to represent the social and economic élite. Canada's first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, described it as a body of "sober second thought" that would curb the "democratic excesses" of the elected House of Commons and provide regional representation. As an upper house on the British parliamentary model, it was not meant to be more than a revising body, or a brake on the House of Commons. Therefore, it was deliberately made an appointed house, since an elected Senate might prove too popular and too powerful, and be able to block the will of the House of Commons.

I dunno

[ollie]

And Ollie, do you ever have anything to say that amounts to more than a one-liner? No sarcasm in that statement, rather frustration at a discourse that doesn't focus on the issues, more the ego's involved in shaping those issues.

Knew you'd say that. Thanks for working on your brevity though.

[can-o-phish]

And Ollie' date=' do you ever have anything to say that amounts to more than a one-liner? No sarcasm in that statement, rather frustration at a discourse that doesn't focus on the issues, more the ego's involved in shaping those issues.[/quote']

Knew you'd say that. Thanks for working on your brevity though.

hee hee hee hee heeeeeee hawwwwww

[hamilton]

So who's got my heady' date=' WE SHOULDN'T ELECT THE SENATE, argument?[/quote']

Will, I can sense you're in a bad mood, and this isn't my argument per say as I really haven't thought enough about this, but there are hundreds of years of British Parliamentary 'common law' and tradition that would serve as a good argument for keeping things the way they are wrt the Senate.

The Canadian Parliament was based on the Westminster model (that is, the model of the Parliament of the United Kingdom). The Senate was intended to mirror the British House of Lords, in that it was meant to represent the social and economic élite. Canada's first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, described it as a body of "sober second thought" that would curb the "democratic excesses" of the elected House of Commons and provide regional representation. As an upper house on the British parliamentary model, it was not meant to be more than a revising body, or a brake on the House of Commons. Therefore, it was deliberately made an appointed house, since an elected Senate might prove too popular and too powerful, and be able to block the will of the House of Commons.

I dunno

Absolutely.

Here, I'll come out and say it: too much democracy is a bad thing. Since the Senate is the lesser of the two houses to begin with and is meant to be more of a revising body than an initiating one, I have no problem with a group of people who don't have to please voters be in charge of evaluating legislation passed by the group of people who do have to please voters in order to keep their jobs.

[hamilton]

I would, however, be in favour of stripping senators of their positions if they don't show up to work on a regular basis. If they aren't doing what they should be doing, there is no justification for keeping them on until they hit 75, or whatever the age limit is.

[SmoothedShredder]

That also makes alot of sense Hamilton.

No doubt with this electorate, and this parliament we're lucky we can all tie our own shoes without a committee or a subsidy.

Anyways, thanks guys for talking about the issues for/with me instead of just picking on the guy who seems to always be defending Harper (if only to get some substance in the debate)

And yeah I'm in a bad mood... sorry... it's tough around the holidays with no family and all. I try to tell myself it'll be okay leading up to it... but clearly it's getting the best of me at this point.

[SaggyBalls]

Backgrounder - List of new Senators

22 December 2008

Ottawa, Ontario

Newfoundland and Labrador

Fabian Manning has dedicated his career to serving Newfoundlanders and Labradorians at all three levels of government. A three term councilor in the town of St. Brides, Mr. Manning served as coordinator for the Cape Shore Area Development Association for three years. Mr. Manning would go on to win three elections to the Newfoundland and Labrador House of Assembly as the representative for Placentia – St. Mary’s. Mr. Manning was subsequently elected as Member of Parliament in the federal constituency of Avalon in the 2006 Federal Election campaign. Mr. Manning would go on to chair both the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans as well as the Conservative Government’s Atlantic caucus.

Nova Scotia

Fred Dickson, QC is both one of Nova Scotia’s most respected lawyers and one of Canada’s top legal experts on offshore resource development. Mr. Dickson is counsel with the law firm of McInnes Cooper. Mr. Dickson has advised the federal and provincial government’s on numerous resource and infrastructure projects, including serving as an advisor to the Government of Nova Scotia during the singing of the 1982 and 1985 Canada / Nova Scotia Offshore Oil and Gas Agreements. Mr. Dickson remains active in these files as a Director of the Offshore / Onshore Technologies Association of Nova Scotia and Canadian Council for Public-Private Partnerships.

Stephen Greene has political and policy experience at both the federal and provincial levels. Mr. Greene served as Chief of Staff in the Leader’s Office of the Reform Party of Canada from 1993 and 1996 during which he helped manage the opposition response to the national unity and fiscal issues of the day. He went on to work as the Executive Director of the Insurance Brokers Association of Nova Scotia. For the past two years he has served as Principal Secretary and Deputy Chief of Staff to Nova Scotia Premier Rodney MacDonald with wide responsibilities to help the Premier administer an effective government for all Nova Scotians.

Michael L. MacDonald is a Nova Scotia businessman who since 1988 has been the owner and President of Fleur de Lis Motel Ltd. Mr. MacDonald had previously served terms as executive assistant to two federal cabinet ministers and the premier of Nova Scotia. A graduate of the University of King’s College and Dalhousie University, Mr. MacDonald has been an activist and volunteer with the federal and provincial Conservative parties since university, and is presently Vice-President of the Conservative Party of Canada and a two-term representative for Nova Scotia on the party’s national executive. A native of Louisbourg, Mr. MacDonald is a long-time resident of Dartmouth where he resides with his wife and two teenaged sons.

Prince Edward Island

Michael Duffy is one of Canada's most well known and respected news personalities and the current host of CTV's daily program, Mike Duffy Live. Mr. Duffy joined CBC Radio News in 1974, switched to CBC TV’s “The National†in 1978, and joined CTV in 1988. He is a member of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. Mr. Duffy is involved in a number of charitable activities both in Ottawa and in his home province, including the UPEI Building fund, and the current Holland College Foundation Fundraising campaign. He has been a visiting fellow at Duke University; and has been twice nominated for the “Best in the Business†award by the Washington Journalism Review. Mr. Duffy has received many other awards and citations, and honourary degrees from the University of PEI; from Niagara University in Niagara Falls, NY; and from Wilfrid Laurier University in Brantford.

New Brunswick

Percy Mockler has been a long-time MLA in the New Brunswick legislature since he was first elected in 1982. During his time in the provincial legislature, Mr. Mockler served in a number of portfolio's including Minister of Wellness, Culture and Sport, Solicitor General and Minister of Human Resources Development and Housing. Mr. Mockler is a former advisory member for trade opportunities strategy with the federal Department of External Affairs. He has also been active in community affairs as treasurer of local fish and wildlife associations, a director of the caisse populaire, and as a member and chair of his local school board.

John D. Wallace was born in Rothesay, NB and had a distinguished law career in Saint John. Most recently, he served for 7 years as Partner/Counsel at the law firm of Stewart McKelvey. Previously he had been Corporate Counsel for Irving Oil Limited and a Partner at Palmer, O’Connell, Leger, Turnbull and Turnbull. Mr. Wallace continued his community service after retiring from law. He is a Member of the University of New Brunswick Board of Governors, the St. John Imperial Theatre Capital Campaign Cabinet and the New Brunswick Symphony Steering Committee. Mr. Wallace was the Telegraph-Journal Male Newsmaker of the Year in 2002 and became a recipient of the Queen’s Golden Jubilee Medal in 2003.

Quebec

Patrick Brazeau is a member of the Algonquin Nation and a citizen of the Indian reserve of Kitigan Zibi, near Maniwaki, Quebec. A champion of the rights of Aboriginals, in 2006, he was chosen as the National Chief of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples. He used this forum to promote the economic and social development of Aboriginals, especially those who live off-reserve. Mr. Brazeau has a black belt in karate and was a member of the Naval Reserve on HMCS Carleton, in Ottawa.

Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis was born in Chicoutimi and studied at the École des Beaux-arts de Québec and at Laval University, where she obtained a bachelor’s degree in visual arts and a certificate in college education. She was a teacher at the regional school board Louis-Fréchette. In 1981, she became the first woman to be elected to the Municipal Council of the City of Sainte-Foy. She became active in federal politics and was elected as the MP for the riding of Louis-Hébert from 1984 to 1993. Ms. Fortin-Duplessis has always been involved in the community. During her career, she was a member of the board of the Alzheimer Society and the Fondation de l’Opéra de Québec, and she is a member of the Laval hospital and the Saint-Sacrement hospital foundations. More recently, she was a volunteer for the International Eucharistic Congress.

Leo Housakos was born in Montreal and studied at Cégep Vanier and at McGill University, where he obtained a bachelor’s degree in arts, with a major in political science and history. In 1993, he co-founded the Montreal Hellenic Chamber of Commerce and is currently a Director of Via Rail Canada.Throughout his business career he has held important management positions in several companies, including Quadvision Consultants and Terrau. Mr. Housakos is married and is the father of two children.

Michel Rivard studied in Quebec City and spent the most part of his professional life in public administration. He was President of the Corporation des maîtres entrepreneurs en réfrigération du Québec, then Mayor of Beauport from 1980 to 1984. Mr. Rivard was director of a number of organizations, and was President of the Executive Committee of the Communauté Urbaine de Québec. In 1994, he was elected at the Assemblée nationale as the MNA for Limoilou. He was Regional Delegate for the region of Quebec and parliamentary Assistant of the Minister responsible for the region of Quebec.

Ontario

Nicole Eaton has devoted much of her life to serving her community in varying degrees through her participation and leadership in a number of charitable organizations, foundations and the arts. Presently she is Director and Vice-Chair of St. Michael's Hospital Foundation, Director and Vice-Chair the National Ballet of Canada and Chair of the Pontifical Institute of Mediaeval Studies. Previously, Ms Eaton has served in varying capacities on a number of other organizations, including the Royal Ontario Museum, the George R. Gardiner Museum, the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair and the Stratford Festival of Canada. Ms Eaton is also a columnist for the newspaper the National Post and is co-author of two publications.

Irving Gerstein, C.M., O. Ont is a businessman and corporate director. A Member of both the Order of Canada and the Order of Ontario, Mr. Gerstein has been involved in politics for over 40 years, including service as Chair of the Conservative Fund Canada. He is an Honourary Director of Mount Sinai Hospital (Toronto), having previously served as Chairman of the Board, Chairman Emeritus, and a director over a period of twenty-five years. He is a director of the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research and a former Chairman of the Young Presidents Organization. Mr. Gerstein graduated from the Wharton School of Finance and Commerce, University of Pennsylvania, and attended The London School of Economics.

Saskatchewan

Pamela Wallin, O.C., S.O.M is an award winning journalist whose career stretches back more than three decades. Ms. Wallin is most recognized from her time at CTV where she co-hosted Canada AM and later served as CTV’s Ottawa Bureau chief. Ms. Wallin would subsequently form her own production company Pamela Wallin Productions Inc. Ms. Wallin has remained active in public life as Chancellor of the University of Guelph and Senior Advisor on Canada-US relations to the President of the Americas Society and the Council of the Americas. In 2007, Prime Minister Harper appointed Ms. Wallin to the Independent Panel on Canada’s Future Role in Afghanistan. Ms. Wallin has agreed to step down as Senator and submit her name as a candidate when Saskatchewan holds its first legislated Senate election.

British Columbia

Nancy Greene Raine, O.C., OBC was Canada’s female athlete of the last century by the Canadian Press and Broadcast News. She won gold and silver medals in alpine skiing at the 1968 Grenoble Olympics and overall World Cup titles in 1967 and 1968. Her total of 14 World Cup victories (including the Olympics) is still a Canadian record. During her nine-year career Nancy won a total of 17 Canadian Championship titles. Since retiring from active competition, she has worked to promote the sport and was instrumental in the early development of the Whistler-Blackcomb Resort. Since 1994 she has been Director of Skiing at Sun Peaks Resort and since 2005 she has been Chancellor of Thompson Rivers University. Ms. Green Raine is an Officer of the Order of Canada, a member of both Canada’s Sports Hall of Fame and Canada’s Walk of Fame.

Yonah Martin has deep roots in both Korean and Canadian heritage and has spent her life building bridges between different cultural communities in BC. Born in Seoul, South Korea, before immigrating to Canada 1972, Ms. Martin is the co-founder of the Corean Canadian Coactive (C3) society and has served on the Multicultural Advisory Council of BC, the Vancouver Korean Canadian Scholarship Foundation, the Kateslem After School Club and the Coquitlam Festival Planners Network. Ms. Martin has also been active in political life as a candidate in the constituency of New Westminster-Coquitlam. In 2004 Ms. Martin received ‘Spirit of Community’ award for her service in the Tri-Cities Area.

Richard Neufeld has spent close to two decades in public service to the people of British Columbia. First elected to represent the riding of Peace River North in 1991, Mr. Neufeld has been re-elected on three separate occasions. Since 2001 Mr. Neufeld has served as British Columbia’s Minister of Energy Mines and Petroleum Resources. Mr. Neufeld has also served as the on the council of Fort Nelson, including five years as mayor. Prior to his involvement in public life, Mr. Neufeld owned and operated his own business.

Yukon

Hector Daniel Lang has made the Yukon his home for more than 50 years. Born in 1948 in Dawson Creek, BC, he moved with his family to Whitehorse where he completed high school, and later attended the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. First elected to the Yukon Legislative Assembly in 1974, Mr Lang served 5 consecutive terms, retiring from the legislature in 1992. Over the course of his 18 years in elected office he was responsible for numerous Ministerial portfolios and later served in the opposition. Since 1992, Mr. Lang has worked as a Sales Associate in the Yukon Real Estate industry. Active in community affairs, he is currently the Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors for Yukon College. He has four children and three grandchildren, who reside in Whitehorse. Mr Lang presently lives in Whitehorse with his partner Valerie Hodgson, a local artist.

[SaggyBalls]

This fuckwad likes kitties and acts as a foster parent for the Ottawa Humane Society.

If you want to adopt Tigger, an 11 year old neutered male - call the Humane Society.

Name: Tigger

Species: cat

Breed: domestic shorthair

Colour: gray tabby

Gender: male (neutered)

Age: 11 years

City: Ottawa, Ontario

URL: www.ottawahumane.ca

E-mail: adoptions@ottawahumane.ca

Contact: (613) 725-3166 ext. 258

aww...kitties.

[Thorgnor]

looks tasty enough

For the record I don't really have a problem with an appointed senate. They are, as Hamilton pointed out, the legacy of past governments keeping checks on the course of the nation that get lost in the agendas during the less-than-four-year "fixed term" governments we have now.

I also think that we've been in need of Conservative senators for quite awhile now and that these seats should have been filled, regardless of whether I disagree with their philosophies, obviously.

I also agree that the answer isn't always more "mob-mentality" democracy.

I do have a problem with Steve's about face in the midst of a chaotic and uncertain time where he claims to stay the course, but changes the message to suit the date. I know that's what politicians do. But they also represent ideas as much as their own personality and they should be held responisble when ideas are shown to be unsound in certain contexts. I'm far more concerned with the appointment of a judge after the CPC pressure to make them elected by MP's, a move I agree more with than altering the senate because of current trends in "democratic values". To do it during prorogue shows less opportunism (because he knew he must eventually fill the seats) than it does a continuation of the fear-mongering tactics the CPC were using aginst the idea of coalition before the break. I predict a perfectly passable budget and now enough senators to help it through the upper house without a block by proxy. Somehow I see this as part of a continuing strategy to make the liberals look bad, not to actually help government

function.

Cynical hyperbole... I wish I could be original but when so many people see the obvious...

Edited December 24, 2008 by Guest

[Birdy]

Cynical hyperbole...

Hear hear!

This isn't an about-face, Harper lied to us situation. He isn't ever going to get senate reform through a senate stacked full of Liberals. It's either make appointments with individuals who would support reform, or do nothing, and wait for the Liberals or whoever comes next to stack it even more.

Mountains out of mole hills you people make!

[ollie]

[color:purple]I love it when the conservatives puts us in our place.

[Birdy]

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

[Thorgnor]

This is depressing.