H1N1 - To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate

[Tricky]

Vaccinate.

I'm just getting over a sickness that I really do think was the H1N1 strain. Three days straight of an unbreakable fever, sore, achy muscles in every inch of my body, the stiffest neck ever that made the worst neck kink seem like nothing, physically sharp shooting chest pains and on top of it all, the usual cold symptoms of runny nose, watery eyes, coughing, sneezing, etc. It sucked. One morning it took me close to half an hour just to type 'I'm not coming to work' on my blackberry.

I don't know if it was H1N1 because when I called my doctor office, they told me I couldn't come in, as i hadn't been sick for four or more days. I was so sick that I fought back tears as they told me this. They SUCK! Only to read later (when the stiff neck was getting better) on some provincial notice put out, that if you experience a stiff neck to the point of not being able to touch your chin to your chest, you should go to the ER immediately. My doctor's office upon hearing my symptoms told me to stay home. Grrr.

I never, ever get flu shots, but people are getting reaaaaaaaaaaaaally sick from this. There are repeated cases of normal, healthy people dying from it, so my vote is to get the vaccine. Why risk it if you don't have to?

After all of that, your immune system probably kicks serious ass!!! If you had the vaccination you wouldn't have such a strong immune system.

[SaggyBalls]

Also' date=' the amount of mercury in one sandwich compared to the mercury being injected directly into flesh/vein matters less than the delivery methods involved...and a most likely potential that there is in fact more mercury in a vaccination than in a tuna sandwich.[/quote']

this makes no sense. would you care to provide some sort of credible evidence to support whatever it is that you are actually trying to say here?

2 things:

1. If one eats mercury laced food it doesn't travel throughout the body in the same manner - doesn't get the same chance to lodge itself in the endocrine system, lymph system, or in the brain - it's buffered by the digestive tract. If one gets it injected into flesh or the circulatory system there is much less barrier.

2. There's no way to prove how much mercury is in a tuna sandwich as each fish is different. Do you have statistics to prove that there is a minimum level of mercury in the FLESH of tuna that we eat (as compared to the fattier parts of the fish, nerve tissues, and gills?

"The study (JAMA 2002;289[2]:179-86), funded by the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC), used a new statistical model to estimate that 36 000 Americans are dying from influenza-related complications each year. The previous estimate was 20 000 deaths. An additional 11 000 mostly elderly people die annually from respiratory syncytial virus (RSV).

The estimates are "similar in Canada," says Dr. Theresa Tam, chief of respiratory disease with the Centre for Infectious Disease Prevention and Control. Canada's flu toll had been estimated at 500 to 1500 deaths annually, but after using new modelling Health Canada estimated that 700 to 2500 deaths may be attributable to influenza."

Not even taking into account the source of those estimates, a fact remains that if we need to lose people to learn that our current wellness model is broken then so be it.

It's issues like this that make me sad for the farmers that are stuck growing corn, soybeans, and rapeseed (canola) to make enough money to feed their families and pay off their burden of debt instead of growing food to feed Canadians and keep us well, and in the process polluting what would otherwise be pristine wetlands, water tables, and rivers with fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides. Farmers feed cities but for the most part in Canada they aren't able to feed them well and we're paying the price with our loved ones and our own likelihood for illness both from the pollution and maligning of our ecosystems and economic models, and from the lack of high yield foods of which we could otherwise have immediate and affordable access.

If one were to look into other studies regarding how many people in Canada suffer from autoimmune disorders, chronic endocrine problems, and metabolic deficiencies - which are heavily influenced by the lack of affordable opportunity to better wellness options beginning in the grocery stores, let alone information that neither health Canada nor our family doctors (for those of us that actually have them) - there would most likely be a strong overlap there both now and down the road when they fall into the age and illness categories that the tens of thousands of deaths the JAMA and CDC specifically refer to.

This is NOT a flu shot issue this is a societal health and wellness issue of which H1N1 is merely a symptom.

Suffer from the symptom fix the affliction?

[hamilton]

Not even taking into account the source of those estimates...

So... all information proffered by any government agency is automatically false, or at least misleading?

[Hal Johnson]

No shot for me. No moral objection, really Im just kinda lazy.

[SaggyBalls]

Not even taking into account the source of those estimates...

So... all information proffered by any government agency is automatically false' date=' or at least misleading?

[/quote']

If they have to proffer information that would otherwise be truthful then I have to question it.

Fantastic use of the word 'Proffer', Hamilton.

There is, on the other hand, no question of the superiority of Vitamin D to engage one's own immune defenses in comparison to the flu shot.

Real science versus mythology:

"Flu vaccines (including swine flu vaccines) are based entirely on a vaccine mythology that assumes all vaccines work and no vaccines can be scientifically questioned. Anyone who dares question the safety or effectiveness of vaccines is immediately branded a danger to public health and marginalized in the scientific community."

-Mike Adams, Editor: NaturalNews

Ten questions about flu vaccines that doctors and health authorities refuse to answer:

#1) Where are the randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies proving flu vaccines are both safe and effective?

Answer: There Aren't Any

#2) Where, then, is the so-called "science" backing the idea that flu vaccines work at all?

Answer: Other than "cohort studies," there isn't any. And the cohort studies have been thoroughly debunked. Scientifically speaking, there isn't a scrap of honest evidence showing flu vaccines work at all.

#3) How can methyl mercury (Thimerosal, a preservative used in flu vaccines) be safe for injecting into the human body when mercury is an extremely toxic heavy metal?

Answer: It isn't safe at all. Methyl mercury is a poison. Along with vaccine adjuvants, it explains why so many people suffer autism or other debilitating neurological side effects after being vaccinated.

#4) Why do reports keep surfacing of children and teens suffering debilitating neurological disorders, brain swelling, seizures and even death following flu vaccines or HPV vaccines?

Answer: Because vaccines are dangerous. The vaccine industry routinely dismisses all such accounts -- no matter how many are reported -- as "coincidence."

#5) Why don't doctors recommend vitamin D for flu protection, especially when vitamin D activates the immune response far better than a vaccine? Vitamin D

Answer: Because vitamin D can't be patented and sold as "medicine." You can make it yourself. If you want more vitamin D, you don't even need a doctor, and doctors tend not to recommend things that put them out of business.

#6) If human beings need flu vaccines to survive, then how did humans survive through all of Earth's history?

Answer: Human genetic code is already wired to automatically defend you against invading microorganisms (as long as you have vitamin D). More Vitamin D

#7) If the flu vaccine offers protection against the flu, then why are the people who often catch the flu the very same people who were vaccinated against it?

Answer: Because those most vulnerable to influenza infections are the very same people who have a poor adaptive response to the vaccines and don't build antibodies. In other words flu vaccines only "work" on people who don't need them. (And even building antibodies doesn't equate to real-world protection from the flu, by the way.)

#8) If the flu vaccine really works, then why was there no huge increase in flu death rates in 2004, the year when flu vaccines were in short supply and vaccination rates dropped by 40%? What??

Answer: There was no change in the death rate. You could drop vaccination rates to zero percent and you'd still see no change in the number of people dying from the flu. That's because flu vaccines simply don't work.

#9) How can flu vaccines reduce mortality by 50% (as is claimed) when only about 10% of winter deaths are related to the flu in the first place?

They can't. The 50% statistic is an example of quack medical marketing. If I have a room full of 100 people, then I take the 50 healthiest people and hand them a candy bar, I can't then scientifically claim that "candy bars make people healthy." That's essentially the same logic behind the "50% reduction in mortality" claim of flu vaccines. Bogus Claims?

#10) If flu vaccines work so well, then why are drug makers and health authorities so reluctant to subject them to scientific scrutiny with randomized, placebo-controlled studies?

Answer: Although they claim such studies would be "unethical," what's far more unethical is to keep injecting hundreds of millions of people every year with useless, harmful vaccines that aren't backed by a shred of honest evidence.

- NaturalNews.com

Since if this were incorrect it would be slanderous and there is no action being taken against independent media for spreading these truths (which have been spread for years) it is more than fair to say that they are on the side of reality.

No TinFoil Hats here.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

Although it has not been 'medically documented' that vaccinations cause autism here's an interesting tidbit...an incredibly low percentage (last I read it was zero but by now maybe it's happened once or twice) of Autistic people have never been vaccinated.

Make it make sense...

[Velvet]

Although it has not been 'medically documented' that vaccinations cause autism here's an interesting tidbit...an incredibly low percentage (last I read it was zero but by now maybe it's happened once or twice) of Autistic people have never been vaccinated.

What percentage of people without autism have never been vaccinated?

I'm curious to see what number you will make up.

[badams]

Public Health of Canada

Myth 1: Vaccines don't work.

Fact 1: It is true that when there is an outbreak of a disease, some people who have been immunized get sick. This leads to the idea that vaccines don't work. Because each individual is different, about 10 to 15 per cent of people vaccinated will not develop immunity to the disease. Nevertheless, immunization reduces the risk of severe disease. In the case of the H1N1 flu virus, since very few people are immune, it is predicted that without interventions like a vaccine and antivirals, close to 25 to 35 per cent of the population could become ill over the period of a few months. Immunization is the most effective way to prevent illness and to reduce the risk of transmitting the flu to those around you.

Myth 2: There are many serious side effects from vaccines.

Fact 2: We acknowledge that there are concerns with respect to immunization. There are some risks association with flu vaccine, but the potential risk for serious adverse events, like Guillan-Barré Syndrome, is low.

For regular seasonal influenza, about 5 to 10 percent of the population will get sick and on average about 4000 people die every year. The risks of serious side effects from the flu are far greater than the risk of experiencing an adverse event after receiving the flu shot. The risk of suffering Guillan-Barré as a complication from the flu is greater than the risk of getting it as a reaction to the flu shot.

Vaccines are among the safest tools of modern medicine. In Canada, serious side effects from the flu vaccine occur very rarely – about one for every million shots distributed. The vast majority of side effects from vaccines are minor and temporary, like a sore arm or mild fever. These are much less severe than influenza infection, and last for a much shorter time. No long-term effects have been associated with any vaccine currently in use.

Myth 3: Because the H1N1 flu vaccine is new, it is untested and unsafe.

Fact 3: Careful research into the safety of any vaccine is done prior to its widespread use. The requirements for vaccines approved for sale in Canada are stringent. Every vaccine lot is safety-tested by the manufacturer and by the Biologics and Genetic Therapies Directorate at Health Canada. Health Canada will review all available test results, including international data, to ensure the vaccine is safe and effective before it is authorized for use in Canada. The dangers of vaccine-preventable diseases are much greater than the risk from a serious reaction to a vaccine.

The use of an adjuvanted vaccine is not new. The adjuvant used in the H1N1 flu vaccine although new in Canada, has been widely used safely in Europe in other vaccines. This adjuvant has already been evaluated by Health Canada, and no safety concerns have been found.

Myth 4: Taking the regular flu shot puts me at risk of becoming very ill with H1N1

Fact 4: Preliminary findings from some Canadian studies indicate that those healthy adults that tested positive for H1N1 were twice as likely to have received seasonal vaccine. More research is needed to establish whether or not there is a causal relationship between these factors. What is important is that there is no association with receiving seasonal vaccine and experiencing serious illness from H1N1.

Studies in Canada and the U.S. have shown that there appears to be no increased risk of severe disease from the H1N1 flu virus among people who received seasonal flu shots. Studies in the U.S., Australia and Britain have not shown an association between the seasonal flu shot and getting the H1N1 flu virus.

Myth 5: The influenza vaccine can give you influenza.

Fact 5: The influenza vaccine cannot give you influenza. The influenza vaccine contains dead influenza viruses and they cannot cause infection.

Myth 6: Getting an influenza vaccine every year overwhelms and weakens the immune system.

Fact 6: The influenza vaccine gives you a high level of immunity to the virus. People who get the influenza vaccine every year are better protected against influenza than those who do not get it.

Myth 7: The influenza vaccine contains thimerosal (mercury), which is harmful, especially for young children.

Fact 7: The amount of thimerosal used in the influenza vaccine is very small and has not been shown to cause any harm. Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization (which includes recognized experts in the fields of paediatrics, infectious diseases, immunology, medical microbiology, internal medicine and public health) has reviewed the latest science and concluded, "there is no legitimate safety reason to avoid the use of thimerosal-containing products for children or older individuals." The vaccines that Canadian children and adults receive are safe.

Myth 8: Pregnant women should not get the influenza vaccine.

Fact 8: The influenza vaccine is safe during pregnancy. Being immunized is the best way to protect yourself and those around you, including your unborn infant. It is also safe for babies to breastfeed after mothers receive the influenza vaccine.

Although women who are pregnant are not more likely to get the H1N1 flu virus, they are more likely to suffer complications if they do get infected. This is particularly true in the second and third trimester of the pregnancy.

If you have any questions about getting an influenza shot during your pregnancy, speak with your doctor or health care provider.

Myth 9: My child got the influenza vaccine (flu shot) last year so there is no need to give him the shot again. He is still protected against the virus.

Fact 9: It is important for children over the age of six months to be immunized every year to make sure their body forms antibodies against the most common strains of influenza viruses circulating that year. Because the flu viruses may change from year to year, the vaccine is updated annually, so your child should get the flu shot every year.

These are only a few of many myths circulating about immunization and the influenza vaccine (regular seasonal flu and H1N1). When seeking information on such vital issue as your health, it is important to refer to official sources such as Health Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, and your provincial and territorial departments of health.

You can access current, updated information through www.fightflu.ca or by calling toll-free 1 800 O-Canada (1-800-622-6232). Being and staying protected against any illness starts with knowing the facts.

[nibbler]

More information about the vaccine-autism issue:

Once an uncommon disorder in the United States, the incidence of autism is now occurring at epidemic rates. Whereas during the 1970's one in 10,000 children developed autism, it now affects as many as one in 150. What could explain this alarming trend?

Given the growing burden this epidemic is putting upon both our health care and school systems, it would be informative to know what causes this frightening disease. One might assume that genetics is the culprit since no other cause is offered. However, one might also ask how it is possible to have such an epidemic based solely on genetics. The fact is we are rarely invited to debate the controversy over the nature of this epidemic because the most plausible cause, which relates to changes in vaccination programs over the past three decades, is not readily accepted by a public that believes vaccination is safe, effective and health promoting.

While it is certain that genetics predisposes individuals to certain diseases, as with all pathology the triggers for disease involve immune system dysfunction brought about by dietary deficiencies and/or environmental stress. In the case of autism, research shows that a high percentage of those affected are victims of massive chemical toxicity. The neurological damage that is characteristic with autism is strikingly similar to the well-established side effects of mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde toxicity. These neurotoxins are common vaccine ingredients.

During the 1940's and 50's when only some of the population was exposed to only a few vaccines, autism was primarily confined to the upper and upper-middle socioeconomic classes, those who could afford good health care and the cost of vaccination.

During the 1970's and 80's, the federal government established goals for improving vaccination rates. To achieve high vaccination rates (97%), the government implemented nationwide vaccine initiatives, which included offering federal grants to states and encouraging strict enforcement (state mandates for forced vaccination). During this time period, the number of mandated vaccines gradually increased (from 8 in 1980 to 22 in 2000) as vaccination became a requirement for a much younger population (the majority of all 30 childhood vaccines are administered before the age of 18 months). Only after these developments did autism cross class lines. Today autism is widespread in all socioeconomic groups.

The way in which autism developed in children changed after the mid-1980's. Parents began reporting that their children developed normally during the first year and half and THEN became autistic. It is a fact that most vaccines contain toxic mercury, many of them grossly in excess of EPA permissible standards for ADULTS!

In 1979, the mercury-containing MMR was added to the vaccine schedule. In 1988, the mercury-containing HIB vaccine was added. Mercury-containing Hepatitis B for newborns was added in the early 1990's. Children receive all these vaccines, plus mercury-containing DTP, in three to four toxic doses during the first year and a half of their fragile lives, and the vaccines are usually administered simultaneously (multiple mercury-containing vaccines on the same day).

[Booche]

I can google too.

The vaccine-autism debate should end now

New rulings in the U.S. state what science has shown for years: thinking that the shots cause the disorder is 'very wrong'

Andre Picard

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Published on Thursday, Feb. 19, 2009 9:33AM EST

The science proving this point has been quite clear for a number of years. But last week, the scientific evidence was given an important legal booster shot.

Judges at the U.S. "vaccine court" ruled on three test cases in which it was claimed that the standard childhood vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella caused autism, and they were unequivocal in their findings.

One judge (known by the title special master), George Hastings, said a thorough, dispassionate review of the evidence demonstrated that the vaccine-autism theory was "very wrong."

He said parents who adhere to this theory "have been misled by physicians who are guilty ... of gross medical misjudgment."

Special master Denise Vowell, who heard a case alleging that a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal can trigger autism, said that while the evidence is incredibly complex, the experts arguing that there is no link between autism and vaccines "were far more qualified, better supported by the weight of scientific research and authority, and simply more persuasive on nearly every point in contention." (Thimerosal was once used in childhood vaccines,+ but is no longer.)

Special master Patricia Campbell-Smith, who heard the third test case, said that while one cannot help but be "moved as a person and as a parent" by the tragic stories of children with autism, there is simply no credible scientific evidence demonstrating a vaccine-autism link.

The judges considered 5,000 pages of testimony from experts and 939 scientific articles and independently came to the same conclusion.

The rulings from the "vaccine court" - which was set up as part of a U.S. program to compensate people who suffer the occasional side effects of vaccines (Canada, with the exception of Quebec, does not have a compensation program for those harmed by vaccines) - effectively puts an end to the cases of about 4,800 families claiming their children's autism was caused by the MMR vaccine.

Unfortunately, it is unlikely to put an end to unsubstantiated claims about the MMR vaccine and childhood vaccines more generally.

That's because a whole industry of hucksters has sprung up to promote alternatives to vaccines, and the vocal (and Web-savvy) minority of conspiracy theorists will see these thorough, thoughtful rulings as, well, just another part of the conspiracy by Big Pharma to poison kids for profit.

The vaccine-autism scare dates back a decade. In 1998, British gastroenterologist Andrew Wakefield and colleagues published a now-infamous article in The Lancet medical journal that suggested a jab of MMR could trigger bowel conditions in children that led to autism. The study of 12 children caused a furor, but the findings have never been reproduced or substantiated. A number of Dr. Wakefield's co-authors have retracted parts of the paper and others are facing professional misconduct charges.

The damage has been incredible. In Britain, about 25 per cent of children do not get the MMR vaccine and, as a result, there has been a resurgence of childhood illnesses such as measles.

In Canada, we are not there yet but the vaccine-autism claims have fuelled an international anti-vaccine movement. It is a movement that relies on half-truths to peddle "alternatives" such as mega-doses of vitamins, homeopathic medicines and sham autism treatments.

Yet the reason this movement has flourished is that public-health officials have been incredibly inept at promoting the benefits of vaccination and even worse at answering parents' legitimate concerns.

The reality is that vaccines, and childhood vaccines in particular, are one of the greatest medical advances in the history of humanity.

The virtual elimination of once-common conditions such as measles, mumps and diphtheria through childhood immunization programs has prevented thousands of deaths and untold suffering.

But vaccination programs have been a victim of their own success. Polio and smallpox are all but eradicated, and so uncommon now are diseases such as measles that the public has lost sight of the devastation they wrought.

The reality, too, is that all drugs have side effects and vaccines are no exception. Childhood vaccines - and Canadian kids now routinely get shots to protect them from 14 illnesses - require bothersome needle sticks and they can cause fever and irritation. In rare instances, vaccines can cause shock, brain inflammation and death, particularly in children with allergies or compromised immune systems.

But the risk needs to be kept in perspective: Of the 400,000 children born in Canada each year - virtually all of those are vaccinated - about five will have severe reactions.

That makes vaccines many times safer than over-the-counter medications such as Aspirin and Tylenol.

And the ultimate tragic irony in all this is that the MMR vaccine is probably the safest of all.

Since the 1970s, more than half a billion doses of MMR have been administered around the world, and international research has concluded that there have been no deaths and no permanent damage caused by the vaccine.

Parents should have these reassuring facts in plain language from health care professionals and public-health programs, not be dependent on massive court rulings or, worse yet, the alarmist dreck on the Web.

[Velvet]

Not to derail the thread, but "special master"?!?!?

[CatPhish]

More information about the vaccine-autism issue:

Once an uncommon disorder in the United States, the incidence of autism is now occurring at epidemic rates. Whereas during the 1970's one in 10,000 children developed autism, it now affects as many as one in 150. What could explain this alarming trend?

The criteria they use to diagnose Autism has changed. What used to just include classic autism now includes about 6 or 7 other related disorders ranging from Classic Autism to Asperger's syndrome all under the umbrella term of Autism Spectrum Disorders. Much of the number increase comes from what is now being included under the diagnoses.

[nibbler]

While it is certain that genetics predisposes individuals to certain diseases, as with all pathology the triggers for disease involve immune system dysfunction brought about by dietary deficiencies and/or environmental stress. In the case of autism, research shows that a high percentage of those affected are victims of massive chemical toxicity. The neurological damage that is characteristic with autism is strikingly similar to the well-established side effects of mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde toxicity. These neurotoxins are common vaccine ingredients.

Yeah- Ive heard of the band -Mercury Mainliner- but I guess their sound just doesnt do it for me... When it comes to heavy metal- I prefer Sabbath, Sons of Otis, Hawkwind, Clutch, Kyuss and early Metallica... that sort of thing.

[bouche]

More information about the vaccine-autism issue:

Once an uncommon disorder in the United States' date=' the incidence of autism is now occurring at epidemic rates. Whereas during the 1970's one in 10,000 children developed autism, it now affects as many as one in 150. What could explain this alarming trend? [/quote']

The criteria they use to diagnose Autism has changed. What used to just include classic autism now includes about 6 or 7 other related disorders ranging from Classic Autism to Asperger's syndrome all under the umbrella term of Autism Spectrum Disorders. Much of the number increase comes from what is now being included under the diagnoses.

On Howard Stern this morning, ex-View cast member Rosie O'Donnell quite seriously speculated that David Letteman has Asperger's syndrome. She cited his inability to look guests in the eye, or even talk to them during commercial breaks.

[Jakis]

At the hospital I work at last year the amount of employees who got the flu shot was incredibly low, I think around 30%.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Guest

[Esau.]

Since if this were incorrect it would be slanderous and there is no action being taken against independent media for spreading these truths (which have been spread for years) it is more than fair to say that they are on the side of reality.

No TinFoil Hats here.

Opinon is not slander.

So implying that if the provided information was incorrect, action would (or could) be taken against independent media fails as any sorta of conformation of "truth".

I don't think anyone (doctors, gov't or px company) would debate the importance of vitamin D to our health and survival. There will however be differing opinions on whether or not it's enough to defend against H1N1 or any other virus for that matter.

Personally, I haven't had a flu shot in over a decade, nor do I recall the lst time I had the flu.

[AD]

Not to derail the thread, but "special master"?!?!?

Special master

A special master, in law, is an authority appointed by a judge to make sure that judicial orders are actually followed.

[phishtaper]

ok, so for the sake of discussion, let's say the vaccine is dangerous. why would health officials knowingly inject us with something dangerous?

[bradm]

ok, so for the sake of discussion, let's say the vaccine is dangerous.

Stop right there. The safety of medicines is not black and white, "dangerous" or "safe." All medicines have side effects, and yes, that includes vaccines. As one of the posted articles says, what danger there is known to be with the H1N1 vaccine is much smaller than the danger from getting H1N1 flu, and much less likely to occur. (It's also important knowing how you as a person react to vaccines. I heard a call-in show about the H1N1 vaccine program on CBC radio the other day, and one caller said she had an allergy to eggs, and wanted to know how she'd be affected by the vaccine [flu vaccines are manufactured using chicken eggs]; that kind of thing is important to know if you have such an allergy.)

why would health officials knowingly inject us with something dangerous?

They're not injecting you with something dangerous, they're injecting you with something that has known side effects (e.g., sore arm) in a small percentage of the population, and the information on those side effects is readily available*, as is information on side effects of any other medication that is given or prescribed.

Aloha,

Brad

* I assume there'll be pamplets available at clinics about the possible side effects.

[Schwa.]

No shot for me. No moral objection, really Im just kinda lazy.

hey-o!

can't help but think you're stronger for getting the H1N1 and surviving it. Immune systems weren't invented this century.

[phishtaper]

yes brad ... i was trying to simplify the discussion.

[ollie]

ok, so for the sake of discussion, let's say the vaccine is dangerous. why would health officials knowingly inject us with something dangerous?

They bought the vaccine, now they have to justify its purchase by convincing us to get pricked. That's how everything works in gov't.

[bradm]

yes brad ... i was trying to simplify the discussion.

Whoops, I may have mis-interpreted your post. If you were using the fact that health officials wouldn't knowingly inject something dangerous (or which had likely-to-occur harsh side effects) as an argument in favour of the safety of the H1N1 vaccine, then I apologize for what I wrote.

Aloha,

Brad

[ollie]

I liked your post Brad. You're the voice of reason in a room full of paranoid hippies.

[bradm]

yes brad ... i was trying to simplify the discussion.

I think there's a problem with the argument you're trying to make, though. You're stating that since health officials wouldn't inject a vaccine (or any other medicine) that was known to be dangerous (which I believe to be true), then that means that the vaccine/medicine must be safe. It doesn't, it just means that the vaccine/medicine isn't known to be dangerous, which is a very different thing (see thalidomide).

Aloha,

Brad

Edited October 26, 2009 by Guest
Moved parenthical reference to thalidomide one clause over.