phorbesie Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 that's a great tagline for brad m "the voice of reason in a room full of paranoid hippies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 that's a great tagline for brad m "the voice of reason in a room full of paranoid hippies" That's not quite the voice-of-sexy-in-a-room-full-of-hot-stewardess that I was hoping for, but thanks anyway. Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 this thread is potentially the dumbest i've ever read here. some people clearly do not understand science. and i can't say it any more politely than that. and MMR vaccine is not the same thing as influenza vaccine. all of the people who breathe the air in Ottawa have had a headache. thus we can conclude that ottawa air causes headaches. c'mon folks......i get a flu shot every year. i'll be getting the H1N1 shot and the flu shot this year as well. the one thing that i find perplexing was the decision for most of the provinces, ontario included, to give the H1N1 vaccine before the flu vaccine based on evidence from ONE study the results have which have not been replicated in any other country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 again, I am not making an argument. I am simply offering those who are against inoculation a chance to provide some reason as to why officials would ignore all of the evidence they claim clearly shows that vaccines are harmful.perhaps I should not have phrased it rhetorically using "let's say" and "for the sake of discussion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blurasis Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I wait for the whole insanity to die down and maybe get my flu shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 this thread is potentially the dumbest i've ever read here. some people clearly do not understand science. and i can't say it any more politely than that.[color:purple]You want to give it another shot? Seriously, I can't get enough of the "you're an idiot" argument in order to persuade me to roll up my sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Can't we just please go back to calling it Swine Flu? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 any and all threads asking for ones opinion on an issue end up in this fashion, ollie.There are WAY more fucked up threads on here than this one, I'll tell ya that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localcrew Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 It is not simple....There are many who feel that vaccines are more dangerous than beneficial including many doctors, scientists and even REPUBLICANS (yikes!) Health care workers refuse vaccines routinely claiming as a main reason the fact that they deal first hand with patients whose bodies and lives are ruined by these medicines....We (generally)assume that science and doctors understand fully the immune system and the effects of using these techniques.This of course is not the case. If we understood as fully as that we would not need vaccines and other dangerous medicines.We are not even 100% sure that the vaccines offer immunity to the diseases they fight.There is evidence that they do as well as evidence that they don't. There is evidence that they kill and maim large numbers of people and evidence that they don't. There are doctors and scientists that claim they are safe and doctors and scientists that claim they are not. Health care workers seem to be split themselves at (generously) 50/50 whether to use vaccines or not.The odds of the vaccines being safe are meaningless when you take your baby home who was minutes ago vibrant and happy in a vegetative state after a 'needle'....or as in the case of an Ottawa mother a few years ago...paralyzed for years after a routine vaccination....she learned to walk eventually at roughly the same pace as her baby. She will not be getting a flu shot any more.Likewise there would be not even cold comfort for a parent who refused the vaccinations for their children on the basis of the ample evidence of their dangers if their child then died of a disease they could have been (allegedly) vaccinated against. There is also discussion as to whether the rise of auto immune diseases may be related to our aggressive manipulation of our immune systems; who knows?To suggest that doctors administer these 'medicines' knowingly as harmful is like suggesting politicians raise our taxes in hopes that we'll all go bankrupt. As in politics doctors find many things out of their control and go with the trend and try to reconcile and modify as they go.Their decisions are often motivated by political decisions as the bureaucracy desperately needs to be seen as being responsive....you know what I mean. The media drives these health care decisions as much as they drive politics as well. Then there is the money involved in these huge pharmaceutical companies, the bread and butter doctors get from administering vaccines and their need to comply with standard medical practices for their own survival and the question of whether or not vaccines are curing diseases becomes an afterthought.... ....I doubt a discussion here is going to draw unanimous agreement.....let alone understanding..The only thing you can do is choose.At least here we can choose as opposed to some states in the USA where police are authorized to enter your home and forcibly have you inoculated against H1N1....We choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayr Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 There's no right answer. It's up to personal preference and opinion.I trust the Government to look out for my personal well being almost as much as I believe everything the media tries to force down my throat. Being that they both seem to be trying just a little bit too hard to convince me makes me even more skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YearsAlongTheSea Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I'm getting the shot and the flu with a touch of mercury poisoning. If I'm lucky, Harper will come by and molest me in my hospital bed and steal my Metro Pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localcrew Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I think I touched on that in my essay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 1) I asked almost every adult I met today at work if they were getting the shot, and only one person said they were for sure. A few said no but most said they didn't know.I find that interesting.2) "...some people clearly do not understand science."I ain't disagreeing, but allow me to add that for most people science is analogous to religion, specifically in that it requires a leap of faith. I know, science involves tests and logic and all, but from the layman's perspective it's either believe it or don't, as most of us don't test things ourselves. 'They' can put a man on the moon, 'they' are trying to fix the ozone, 'they' came up with a vaccine...Some people just don't believe science, and it may come from not understanding science, but then those who are on side with religion may claim others don't believe in God because they don't understand God.3) In some instances, automotive airbags have killed people when they've deployed during an accident. Does anyone here consider having their airbags dismantled because of that risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 3) In some instances, automotive airbags have killed people when they've deployed during an accident. Does anyone here consider having their airbags dismantled because of that risk? It always freaks me out when I'm a passenger on a road trip and I stare at the air bag hold and realize it can pop me in the face at any given moment.Although I'm also usually pretty high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I think the Bilderberg Group invented the Swine Flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnt Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 3) In some instances' date=' automotive airbags have killed people when they've deployed during an accident. Does anyone here consider having their airbags dismantled because of that risk? [/quote']It always freaks me out when I'm a passenger on a road trip and I stare at the air bag hold and realize it can pop me in the face at any given moment.Although I'm also usually pretty high.It always amazes me how many passengers tempt fate by putting the feet up on the dash, so that if the airbag goes off the best case scenario will be both legs broken and worst is it could kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 i didn't call anybody an idiot. and re my people not understanding science comment - it was really directed towards the link b/w autism and immuization. i..e 99% of autistic people have had shots, etc...and then making that conclusion. that is just plain bad and wrong scientific analysis. there is a bunch of bad science, made up #s, and conspiracy theories being bandied about here. you can't argue with that. it is like arguing with republicans (or stephen harper) about climate change. they make up stats, and mis-use real scientific analysis. i am as sceptical as the next person about pharmaceuticals - actually probably more so. i am no fan of big pharma and have many concerns/issues. this just isnt one of them. the studies examining the effectivness of things like vaccinations are done involvin averages and the overall efffectiveness on the population. yes, the shot could do something really bad to you, but the odds are that H1N1 will kill you are even greater than that. that is on a population level. not easy telling that to the person who's kid was harmed from the shot. and sure an airbag might kill you, but on a population level the risk associated with NOT having an air bag are greater than the risks associated with having one. same thing with seat belts. at the end of the day you have to make up your mind re what to do. but make it up based on sound scientific analysis and real stats. and i guess if you want to give conspiracy theories some weight in your analysis that is your choice.eating health, atking care of yourself, etc is important. washing hands frequently is probably the most important thing. but that still doesnt prevent you from getting the flu (swine flue or otherwise). immunization is, IMO, a very low risk intervention that i will do. (and i dont trust health canada in all of their decisions either. this one, to me, is just a no brainer. although as i did note, i am perplexed by their conclusion re the ordering of the vaccines) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 It always amazes me how many passengers tempt fate by putting the feet up on the dash, so that if the airbag goes off the best case scenario will be both legs broken and worst is it could kill them.OT: I always think the same thing when I see that. I also wonder why we never hear of doggie casualties when there is news of a fatal car accident. Do dogs know something that we don't? I don't know of one dog that has died in a car accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 i give up. i dont even know what anyone is saying anymore. debating issues in threads like this one becomes almost impossible. it's like discussing something with a 13yo off his ritalin armed with a case of jolt and two pounds of red licorice. fun to watch but don't try to reason with them. (pour vous, booche ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak By Night Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I've been following the H1N1 vaccination debate with some interest.I was debating this subject on the weekend with somebody dead set against the vaccination. Ironically, this person was smoking cigarettes while pontificating about how vaccinations can kill you with their adjuvants and mercury.I hope those who are so adamantly against the vaccination are told to go home and suck on some vitamin D when they they show up at death's door in the emergency room after succumbing to the virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nibbler Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Attempt to reign in the circus #1 Scenario A: get the H1N1 shot: best case scenario = nothing happens at all worst case scenario = catch H1N1, feel like crap for a week/ possibly die from it (the shot protects about 70% of those who receive it); possible long term immune system disruption, heavy metal poisoning, brain damage, triggering of genetic disease, possibly death Scenario B: don't get the H1N1 shot: best case scenario = nothing happens at all worst case scenario = catch H1N1, feel like crap for a week/ possibly die from it I like to imagine myself in another person's shoes for this question as I am already jaded by the experience that not everything the Gubmint tells me is true. So I imagine myself as parent of a young child- its spring 2010, the swine flu thing is come and gone- and my child has unfortunately come through it with a worst case scenario outcome. I know, shitty buzz. That being the situation- and I have thought this through several times- I am SURE that I would rather be stuck in that situation by a random act of nature (the flu), rather than stuck thinking that my own decision to vaccinate caused a worst case scenario. Anybody else want to weigh in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 My two thoughts:1. More people die from the regular flu every year than the swine flu.2. I'll just drink lots of booze. Alcohol always does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I don't have the time or energy to address all of the crazy I'm this thread, but don't mistake your mistrust for 'the government' with mistrust for the hundreds (thousands) of highly skilled, talented, specialized and serious doctors, scientests, nurses, assistants, workers etc that are responsible for this campaign at Health Canada and PHAC (amongst other agencies and departments). Do you really think all these dedicated professionals are staking their jobs and reputation (not to mention duty) on recommending something that will harm the population they are in charge of protecting? It doesn't pass the smell test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) [color:purple]pass me some of that koolaid, AD..........tragically, an otherwise healthy 13yo boy in toronto is reported to have died yesterday from H1N1. Edited October 27, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now