Folks of Ottawa: Lansdowne Live!

[Cosmic ChrisC]

I didn't know that Whole Foods was in the plan. That would be great! Always nice to have a variety of grocery stores in a city. We don't have a Whole Foods here in Ottawa yet. And Glebites would love that place...organic.

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/

Anyway, I just want something to get done with that site ASAP so I support Lansdowne Live and hope that the City and Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group can start work on this very soon.

Sure, other proposals should have been submitted and judged etc., but we've got this proposal right now that can be improved. And those guys from OSEG know Ottawa well, right? So that's a plus. Not some complete strangers from halfway around the world.

[Northern Wish]

"But just because a company sells natural foods doesn't mean it can do no wrong. Many of Whole Foods' actions have been controversial, especially where their labor practices are concerned. As the Texas Observer put it, "People shop at Whole Foods not just because it offers organic produce and natural foods, but because it claims to run its business in a way that demonstrates a genuine concern for the community, the environment, and the 'whole planet,' in the words of its motto. In reality, Whole Foods has gone on a corporate feeding frenzy in recent years, swallowing rival retailers across the country.... The expansion is driven by a simple and lucrative business strategy: high prices and low wages."

I'm not suggesting that anyone stop shopping at Whole Foods or boycott it -- I'd just want consumers to realize that even a company that puts on a socially-responsible face doesn't always live up to its own hype."

From:

http://michaelbluejay.com/misc/wholefoods.html

I read lots of cool things about this company in a great book "The Best Companies To Work For", but was shocked to hear about how this company changed its colors over the last few years.....

[gentlemonkey]

It appears as though there is a nice looking concert pitch in the plans. that would be nice.

[AD]

Here are some of my thoughts. If I've got any facts wrong, please do correct them.

Football / Stadium:

I'm indifferent to a CFL franchise. Football-watchin' is fun, but it has failed here twice before. All this other development is just a foot in the door to secure city funding for the Renegades / Roughriders / whatever they'll be called.

I think a stadium is important and needed (if not for CFL then for events similar to the Stones show, U20 World Cup, Francophonie Games, etc) , but I don't think we should pay to refurbish Frank Clair - it's a dump (as is the Civic Centre Arena). They should build a proper new stadium close to proper transit (which Ottawa doesn't have). Of course there is no money to do this. (Zero means 10%). I heard somewhere that it cost $60 million to build BMO Field in Toronto, yet the Lansdowne Live bid calls for $113 million to refurbish Frank Clair. What the hell? If someone is going to spend all kinds of money on this site, do it up right - rip the stadium down and build something beautiful and functional, and if you can do it for cheaper, great!

Also, football didn't ever make money in Ottawa.

Retail:

If Lansdowne Live is going to be a tourist spot / regional draw (like all the literature touts), a supermarket and a movie theatre are not going to cut it. The Mayfair is across the canal, there are multiple screens at World Exchange, South Keys, and Rideau Centre, not to mention many more outside the core. There are already two supermarkets in the Glebe and Old Ottawa South, not to mention specialty stores such as the Meat Market, Kardish Foods, Wild Oat, Nicastro's, Brioche, Serious Cheese, Ottawa Farmer's Market etc... These stores and the Mayfair may survive, but it sure doesn't seem like a fair fight.

If retail is so badly needed (like the supporters say) why isn't the retail coming here regardless of OSEG? Isn't that what free market capitalism is all about? The OSEG gets the 10 acres for retail rent-free for 30 years while receiving all the revenue from the site (that's the whole site).

Money-stuff:

Like already said, OSEG gets this land rent-free for 30 years plus all revenue, plus the city pays for the stadium upgrades and the parking garage (while giving all the proceeds to the OSEG). OSEG can walk away after 5 years and leave the city with the tab. After the 30 years, OSEG is still first in line for their portion of revenues. Plus they're not going to make much from property taxes on the site. Taxpayers should benefit first, not the developers.

Aesthetics:

From what I've seen in the artist renditions, it's an ugly site. We live in a national capital - the plans look nothing like a source of pride for the city / country / neighbourhood. Everything just needs to be better. The Aberdeen Pavilion could be an amazing market, but instead they want to partition it for restaurants and open space. Other capitals and major cities have landmark developments in sites similar to Lansdowne - an often quoted example is Granville Island in Vancouver. I have no idea if that's turned out to be good for the city, but the multiple times I've been there when visiting Vancouver I've had a good time and spent money.

Parking and Residential:

They want to build a $13 million parking garage (city pays, OSEG gets all revenue for 30 years). Nothing specific to not-like here. I just don't like it in general. Also I don't think residential dwellings should be on this site.

City Council:

What a bunch of jokers. They're voting today to see if they as a whole agree with the plan in principle. Yet there is still quite a bit unknown about this proposal that should be taken into account before any such vote. There is a heritage study to be done about proposed changes to the Aberdeen Pavilion, a traffic study, the issue of the market impact in on Glebe merchants hasn't been figured out (there were two reports, with wildly different conclusions).

The Good Things:

The Farmers' Market needs a permanent home, and if it looked nice, was indoor and was functional that would be great. Use the St. Lawrence Market, the Kitchener Farmer's Market or something similar as a starting point.

A concert site would be nice, but it would be a 'if you build it they might come' gambit. I'd support that though, I like music.

I think it would have made a great site for the new public library, but it's not accessible to much transit so screw that.

At least people are talking about this.

This is off the top of my head... If I think of more I'll post it.

[ollie]

Live debate on Rogers 22 right now. I think Clive Doucet just started crying.

[AD]

Rob Jellett

Mr. Belvedere

[ollie]

15-9 Yes

[AD]

So now there are 7 months of reports, debate and getting real answers to questions before this thing goes ahead or dies.

[ollie]

Huh. O'Brien made it seem like it was a done deal. There will be another vote then?

[bradm]

Isn't there a municipal election happening in 2010? Imagine if some ambitious political newcomer ran for mayor (and won) on a campaign that included canceling this huge project, resulting in the city getting charged or sued for a big multi-mullion dollar penalty...nah, that kind of thing never happens...

Aloha,

Brad

[ollie]

Ew. I think O'Brien just hoodwinked me into voting for him next election.

[AD]

Huh. O'Brien made it seem like it was a done deal. There will be another vote then?

The way I understand it, council voted that they support the principle of Lansdowne Live, pending the reports I wrote about in my post above, as well as many other things (design, more money matters, etc).

I could be wrong though.

[Velvet]

Someone told me that the LL people are the same people who developed the Daly site. Anyone know if that is true?

[AD]

The Daly Site was developed by Claridge I believe. None of the names of the 4 partners have a connection now to Claridge (as far as I can find with a quick Google search) but they might have been involved with the Daly Site back in the day, or I might have missed something.

[AD]

Here is the city's press release tonight about Lansdowne. It is indeed just a conditional approval, pending a whole bunch of things.

City Council today voted to conditionally proceed with the Lansdowne Partnership Plan (LPP). The vote followed a three-day special City Council meeting, which provided residents and public delegations with yet another opportunity to share their views and opinions on the future of Lansdowne Park.

“Today’s vote in favour of the Lansdowne Partnership Plan allows the City and its partners to start working to return the neglected site to its former glory,†said Mayor Larry O’Brien. “The citizens of Ottawa can now look forward to enjoying enhanced green space, a year-round Farmers’ Market, and professional sports as just some of the many features that will restore this historic City property.â€

Approval of the plan is conditional upon the following items:

• Completion of a final review of financial projections, including analysis by the Office of the Auditor General.
  
• Completion of transportation studies and supporting Transportation Demand Management plans to determine whether or not traffic and parking can be reasonably accommodated, and that the transportation strategy will work as anticipated.
  
• Establish a Strategic Design Review and Advisory Panel for the development of a Master Site Plan for Lansdowne Revitalization.
  
• Execute an independent third-party peer review of the two different market studies from Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) and the Bank Street BIA to determine whether or not the commercial plan is viable, and that retail is complementary and supportive of the existing Bank Street retail business community.
  
• Immediately initiate a Request for Expressions of Interest for the construction and operation of a Trade and Consumer Show facility in Ottawa.
  
• Initiate a competition for the design of the “front yard†including the Ottawa Farmers’ Market, Horticultural Building and the Aberdeen Pavilion and that the design competition include a detailed public consultation process, in partnership with the National Capital Commission and Parks Canada, on the proposed redevelopment of the “front yard.â€
  
• Assisting the Central Canada Exhibition Association (CCEA) in completing the business and logistical plans necessary for the CCEA’s move to a new location on Albion Road following the exhibition in 2010.

“Council’s direction means that staff and OSEG will now concentrate their efforts on negotiating a project agreement framework and on completing the additional work required to assist Council in its decision regarding the LPP,†said City Manager Kent Kirkpatrick. “This includes evaluating the business terms, developing the corporate governance, refining the development concept, completing agreements with third parties and developing a detailed public consultation process with the National Capital Commission (NCC) and Parks Canada on the proposed redevelopment of the front lawn.â€

In June 2010, staff will report back to Council with the results of the negotiations and additional studies for a final decision on the implementation of the LPP. Council will vote on whether or not to enter into a project agreement after reviewing the negotiated terms for finance, transportation, parking, market studies, heritage and the agreement framework.

Following a decision by Council to enter into a project agreement, the City and OSEG will focus on critical planning approvals, detailed design issues, completion of the project agreements, and all other approvals with external agencies and third parties. Work on the final design and construction of the project would begin in March 2011 and be completed by May 2014.

[rubberdinghy]

I just want something to get done...It'll be cancelled like everything else....

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

It'll be cancelled like everything else....

Light rail... Strandherd Bridge....

This city council may be even more dysfunctional than Toronto's.

I still don't like this single-bidder stuff, though.

[bradm]

It'll be cancelled like everything else....

[color:purple]The bus strike wasn't cancelled.

Aloha,

Brad

Edited November 17, 2009 by Guest

[Freak By Night]

Was the Strandherd Bridge really canceled DEM? I had not heard that.

I'm satisfied with the results of the vote for Lansdowne Live. I think, with the amendments and conditions that AD listed above, that it is a good plan.

The Lansdowne Live group of people were not involved with the Daly site.

[Booche]

I just want something to get done...

Therein lies the problem as well as what city councillors are backing on. No one seems to be shooting for the best, second best or even 5th best.

I trust AD would come up with a more viable and vibrant idea. Frank Clair stadium is the WORST stadium I have ever been in. That place is a terrible venue. I have avoided many sporting events there because I cant stand it. The Big O is far superior.......

[bradm]

What do people think of building something like Lansdowne Live at the Bayview location? It already has great public transit access (from the East, West, and South), is largely ugly and unused space (and is near the water to boot), and would allow Lansdowne to be used for something else, like maybe just a big central park.

Aloha,

Brad

[ollie]

Apart from the fact that it's all old and crumbly and assuming they'll fix that part... what don't you like about the Stadium?

I think the view of Ottawa from the South Side as the sun sets is one of the best in the city.

[Freak By Night]

I think the view of Ottawa from the South Side as the sun sets is one of the best in the city.

What Ollie really means is "North side sucks!"

[Booche]

The design is absolutely horrific Ollie. There are none worse that I have been to.

The park bench seats that get crammed? Its the most uncomfortable ones ass can get for 3hrs.

How about the ramps to go to the upper level? Those are fuckingridiculous. You are on them for 10 minutes before you get to the top section.

And how about the measly concession stands? Are there worse bathroom facilities anywhere else?

Oh yeah, and as you pointed out.......its falling apart.

Tear.The.Fucker.Down.

Design something more modern that people might actually want to go to.

[Freak By Night]

You are 100% right Booche. It DID suck. I'm sure the new stadium will rectify all of those problems.