Religion in School

[SaggyBalls]

From my point of view, religion (regardless which one) is really just a manifestation of societal moral codes and life lessons that help to raise kids.

Is school the right venue for that? Well if we could trust parents to actually raise their kids then I would say no, but given that the concept of 'parenthood' (and 'family' for that matter) has become so incredibly diluted, that I think that kids should be exposed to it somewhere and it might as well be school.

It would have saved me a lot of (probably not enough) editing to just have quoted this and typed '+1'

...Well put and entirely reasonable.

...But there really should be some ground rules for this kind of education.

Where the hell are the religious left when we need them?

[carstairs]

Do you really think an institution that is supposed to be the venue for learning and developing critical thinking is the proper place to teach mythology as fact?

Your clear bias permeates throughout your response. Did you not read what I said?

This is true. I have a very clear bias when it comes to the state sanctioning of any religious or moral agenda as truth within public institutions.

From my point of view' date=' religion (regardless which one) is really just a manifestation of societal moral codes and life lessons that help to raise kids.[/quote']

Your definition is a convenient oversimplification. Regardless, I would prefer people to keep their "moral codes and life lessons" in their homes, churches, community centres, etc. and not in the schools.

[mister slippery]

Whoa? You were at Oriole Park School?

Freaking small world.

I still see Mr.Stark in the neighbourhood from time to time.

:content:

No shit!?!? Did you go there too? I was supposed to go to Mr. Stark's retirement party (one of my old classmates had informed me of it) but I couldn't make it. He was awesome. I had him the year that Italy won the World Cup in '82. We watched all the World Cup games that he could get on the TV that he rolled into the classroom. Beatles performances for school shows He taught us calligraphy. He'd get me to run up to Eglinton before lunch and grab him a sandwich from one of the restaurants (imagine that happening today ).

I was at Oriole for Grades 4' date='5,6. Lived just down the street on Braemar.

Also found out years later that Mrs. Kudo's daughter and I had a mutual friend in another small world incident.

Kish was one of my best buddies when I was there too (gave him his knickname). He had some brief MuchMusic fame with this;

He does a ton of voices for animated shows and is based in LA.

Small world. Wild.[/quote']

Yup, Gr.2-6 for me, Grade 6 in 84 I think.

I knew Andrew Kishino somewhat through other friends, but weren't close. Pretty funny when the "Rhyme the world" jam came out, and we all realized that it was him.

Sorry this has nothing to do with religious points-of-view, and whether they're wrong or not.

[Thorgnor]

I'm over here.

You are God...

carry on.

[Esau.]

Personally, I think kids, teens & adults could all stand to learn (or be re-educated in) some moral codes. Both within the home & schools. None of which I believe need to have anything to do with religion.

I do believe however, that having any one religious belief in the public school system is at best, exclusionary and contradicts the freedom of religious exercise.

Perhaps the public school system should be teaching about the vast diversities of religious beliefs in our country from first grade through highschool if they want kids, teens and adults to have any level of religious acceptance and understanding.

Of course, I really don't see that happening.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

...But there really should be some ground rules for this kind of education.

And there are. MOET Memo 112 in 1991 established these:

* The school may sponsor the study of religion, but may not sponsor the practice of religion.

* The school may expose students to all religious views, but may not impose any particular view.

* The school's approach to religion is one of instruction, not one of indoctrination.

* The function of the school is to educate about all religions, not to convert to any one religion.

* The school's approach is academic, not devotional.

* The school should study what all people believe, but should not teach a student what to believe.

* The school should strive for student awareness of all religions, but should not press for student acceptance of any one religion.

* The school should seek to inform the student about various beliefs, but should not

seek to conform him or her to any one belief.

( link )

There's a great summary of all the changes and challenges that have taken place before and after here .

Since 1994, there have been guidelines written into the Ontario curriculum for the provision of a religion course in high schools (grade 11), but while high schools are technically required to ask for exemptions from offering it, nobody bothers, and no one holds anyone to account.

I'm wondering if anyone has any stories of people - students or teachers - getting into fights or arguments in the class around religion, and how those were handled. I remember, e.g., having to defuse a fight between two Muslim students, one Sunni and the other Ahmadi, the former accusing the other of not being a "real" Muslim. That kind of thing. I have my own procedures to dealing with those arguments, but I'm curious whether anyone remembers a teacher managing (or failing) to resolve them.

[hamilton]

You should ask scottieking. Back when we both first started teaching in the Thames Valley Board, some kid at the school he still works in wore some sort of religiously-inspired anti-abortion shirt, and a shitstorm ensued. I don't remember the details, and it wasn't Scott's clas, but he may remember what went down.

[Guest Low Roller]

Is there a topic that generates more heated conversation than religion? I really don't think so. Attacking religion is like attacking someone's personal beliefs, which naturally forces the person to defend their view.

I would pin the whole 'religion in public places' debate onto the growing multi-culturalism seen in Canada, which can be equated with the dissolution of the old culture introduce by Europeans and the creation of a new secular one.

The same thing is being seen in France where all religious symbols are being removed from public places (including the controversial ban on head scarves for Muslim women).

Inversely, other countries such as Switzerland chose to pass laws that protect their culture such as the ban on the building of mosques with large minarets which would overpower the skyline of century old towns. Are they wrong in doing that?

Growing up in Montreal, Catholic schools were pretty much the norm, and seen to be of a higher standard than public schools, not because of religion, but just in general seen as a better quality education.

Speaking of Montreal, is anyone else shocked that nobody has complained about the cross on Mont-Royal being a form of religious oppression?

[phishtaper]

personally, I object to churches not having to pay property taxes, etc.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

we should start our own religion!

everyone knows that starting a religion is a good way to make money

who wants to be the messiah/prophet/saviour/lightning rod?

we also need a name

[Esau.]

Speaking of Montreal, is anyone else shocked that nobody has complained about the cross on Mont-Royal being a form of religious oppression?

Or the big ol' cross here in Hamilton on the edge of the escarpment just above to the devil's punchbowl.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

we had a (crazy) music teacher in elementary school that would get mad if we said "Geez". Her reason being "I know that's short for Jesus!".

There were a few other words like that that she didn't like for similar reasons.

[bradm]

we should start our own religion!

everyone knows that starting a religion is a good way to make money

who wants to be the messiah/prophet/saviour/lightning rod?

we also need a name

We shall worship...Darius! The world's largest rabbit.

Aloha,

BRad

[Guest Low Roller]

Praise be to Darius.

We can still keep Easter right? It only makes sense.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Easter will be the new Christmas and now named Dariusmas

The Church of the Dariuses

we shouldn't hijack this thread though

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

- carry on. I need this to keep me sane while I mark crappy assignments.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

i'm envisioning a cross between Scientology and Rastafarianism

DEM- You're in the running to teach the introductory course ($5000) on the path to Dariusitude

[Esau.]

Rabbitfarianism

:bonghit:

[Davey Boy 2.0]

make that Scientology, Rastafarianism and Baptist (for the music)

Going to need a houseband for the church though

I've contacted Esau's people about annointing him Holder of the Sacrament/Bootlegger, they're checking his schedule right now

[Davey Boy 2.0]

duh

Holder Dispenser of the Sacrament/Bootlegger

[Thorgnor]

"We were gonna have a ho-down pot-luck at the old church at the ghost town, but the apostles got too high, ate the dip and licked the icing off the carrot-cake while they argued over why Darius is the best. One said it's cause he's so big, the other said it's because he's soft, big AND soft... and hence a schism developed in the church. Now we can't even agree on which bands are properly celebrating Darius and which are just poseurs trying to make a buck on us honest believers, let alone on which type of icing to put on the carrot-cake."

Edited April 30, 2010 by Guest
They still get high though...

[Davey Boy 2.0]

it's too early to create a breakaway religion!

[Thorgnor]

It wasn't me, blame the carrot-cake.

[bONES]

that's a really big rabbit

[Thorgnor]

and soft...