Rary8 Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I'm sorry but I don't miss Rob Wasserman. I really loved Bob and Rob in the early nineties. That acoustic Victim or The Crime was fantatic. BUT... that Toronto show was the best Ratdog show I have seen. HANDS DOWN. It had a much more rocking feel and was way more dancable than some of the "Elevator Dead" stuff we have heard since '95. I'm thinking the new bassist has alot to do with it. And i'm usually fairly critical of Ratdog. I had a great time. I was broke so I played my guitar outside to raise money to buy a ticket. Didn't have the highest of hopes but just wanted to hang with the scene. ended up getting miracled with a 3rd row. I got to see a fair amount of Bob's technique and playing Dead is about the most important thing to me. Humbled. Shazam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I too thought the show was rockin' fun. However, I remember thinking to myself, as good as that Greatest Story was, Dark Star Orchestra IS the bomb!!! Lisa wailing out the lyrics along side Rob, is hair raising! I just didn't get that from Ratdog I had an awesome night, but put DSO in that same room, recreating 5/7/77 and we'll all be smiling for days my 3cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shainhouse Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I still don't understand how you can compare the real thing (Bob) to a group of people, albiet talented, that just copy his music. To me, DSO is just a cover band that epitomizes the word 'tribute.' There is no originality and no personality, just note for note Grateful Dead, played by someone other than the Dead. In my opinion, I don't know how DSO could get so popular, while bands like Caution Jam, Rose Garland and Dark Hollow, which to me are just as talented and just as much a tribute, remain local commodities. How bout people pay to see original music, not a group of people who are really keen on copying someone else. Just my two cents, no negative thoughts here. take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfmaster C Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 i don't know rose garland or dark hollow, but i know caution jam and in my opinion they are not even close to the quality that dark star puts out. no comparison there. i'm not even going to touch the cover band issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote: There is no originality and no personality, just note for note Grateful Dead, played by someone other than the Dead. Take it from someone who has been to over 200 DSO shows...they are EXTREMELY talented musicians, who are full of originality and personality! From day one The Grateful Dead has been about the music and the songs for me. When I went to my first Grateful Dead show and those that followed, I was there for the music. The people, the lot scene, the fun recreational activities for the mind were all icing on the cake. The Grateful Dead are the REAL thing! I was a kid in the seventies and to put on a tape/cd of 5/9/77 while i'm goin' down the road feelin' bad, lifts my spirits like no other music can. Hearing Donna sing Sunrise is something I never got to experience. Who in the sanctuary did? Ratdog, TOO, P&F, Mickey Hart Band....I've seen them all since Jerry's passing, and I've enjoyed everyone's interpretations of the music. But I miss The Grateful Dead I knew and loved and followed for those too few years in my life. Dark Star Orchestra DOES NOT play Grateful Dead music "note for note". Nor does Caution Jam, Rose Garland or others. It is impossible to recreate a bands music/show note for note! Dark Star Orchestra play the music in the same style, using the same equipment the Dead did depending on the show being recreated. Although I don't know you Shain I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've NEVER been to a DSO show. I think if you had you would get what I've been going on about for the last few years I love Bobby, but when I'm at a show that's playing Grateful Dead I don't care who's standing on stage. I'm there to get lost in the music! I'm not a talker, I'm a dancer Dark Star Orchestra are the best interpreters of that music (for ME). I'd rather hear John (DSO) play/sing a Jerry tune than any remaining member of The Dead. And having Lisa along to sing Donna's part is awesome. They deserve all the attention and success they are achieving But it is all a matter of opinion...right? I laughed when I read you grouping Caution Jam and the others in with DSO, like they are comparable. To each their own I for one am very Grateful for what DSO continue to (re)create, and wish for a Canadian tour sometime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote: Originally posted by bones: I too thought the show was rockin' fun. However, I remember thinking to myself, as good as that Greatest Story was, Dark Star Orchestra IS the bomb!!! Lisa wailing out the lyrics along side Rob, is hair raising! I just didn't get that from Ratdog I had an awesome night, but put DSO in that same room, recreating 5/7/77 and we'll all be smiling for days my 3cents And Phish is way better then the dead. And Widespread sucks without Houser. BNB can't play without Jeffery. Fat Cats went downhill when whats her name left the band in what '93. Diesel Dog blows without that lunatic percussionist. Get a grip man. You didn't go to a DSO show. Who cares what you'd like more. I'd rather see the boys play then anyone else, but the gist of it was how good was Ratdog. I mean, what would your girlfriend think if she said "that was a amazing" and you said, yeah but I had this blow up replica doll of marilyn monroe that was REALLY AMAZING? I just don't get the desire to compare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishin4groove Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 quote: Originally posted by MoMack: quote: Originally posted by bones: I too thought the show was rockin' fun. However, I remember thinking to myself, as good as that Greatest Story was, Dark Star Orchestra IS the bomb!!! Lisa wailing out the lyrics along side Rob, is hair raising! I just didn't get that from Ratdog I had an awesome night, but put DSO in that same room, recreating 5/7/77 and we'll all be smiling for days my 3cents And Phish is way better then the dead. And Widespread sucks without Houser. BNB can't play without Jeffery. Fat Cats went downhill when whats her name left the band in what '93. Diesel Dog blows without that lunatic percussionist. Get a grip man. You didn't go to a DSO show. Who cares what you'd like more. I'd rather see the boys play then anyone else, but the gist of it was how good was Ratdog. I mean, what would your girlfriend think if she said "that was a amazing" and you said, yeah but I had this blow up replica doll of marilyn monroe that was REALLY AMAZING? I just don't get the desire to compare... I agree....and hate to break it to you, but caution jam dont have SHIT on DSO... infact,, i dont really care for thm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 It seems like the irony of the fact that Ratdog is a Grateful Dead cover band is lost on some. Phil and Friends are a Grateful Dead cover band to wit. So each band sports one token original members the rest of the band are just chops players drawing from the GD well. Hell the proof is in the fact that Phil took Baracco from another DEAD COVER BAND (essentially). So yeah while Bobby or Phil lay it down I have to kind of go with Bones on this one that if you're going for a hit of the Grateful Dead you'll get it with DSO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Here are some light-snacks-for-thought on DSO vs. Ratdog, and/or tribute acts vs. non-tribute acts. No disrespect is intended, and I'll apologize in advance for anything that may seem more critical than I had intended. First off, NBC has a slogan it uses in the summer: if you haven't seen it, it's new to you. I would put DSO, TMNS, Caution Jam, Bitches Brew, etc., in this category: I never saw The Grateful Dead*, so I would love to see DSO, because I figure it comes very close to what I would have seen/heard (i.e., what I missed) at a classic Dead show. Further, I find it exciting to see this music made live in front of me. The first time I saw Bitches Brew (an Ottawa / Eastern Ont. band that does Miles Davis music from the "In A Silent Way" / "Bitches Brew" era), I knew all the music they were going to play, and knew there wouldn't be much in the way of suprises, but it still blew me away. I would hope DSO would be the same for me. However...I wonder whether the (considerable, I've heard) musical talent of the members of DSO would be better turned towards the creation of new music. I'd also hope the the members of DSO were active in other non-Dead bands; IMHO, restricting yourself to re-creation of something (and, in particular, re-creating something that was originally created by a whole other entity) is too restricting. (Note that I'm not saying DSO doesn't have the right to play Dead music; far from it, they do, but if I were a working musician, I don't think I could stand playing only somebody else's material: composition and creation are too important to me.) In other words, I'd like to see DSO be the band The Grateful Dead would have been in 2003 had Jerry Garcia lived and got well; I doubt they would have frozen themselves at 1995. Admittedly, no-one can know what would have happened with their music, but since DSO has such a grounding in the music, it'd be exhilarating to be surprised by something new at one of their shows. All that said, I'd love to go to a DSO show. Bring 'em to Ottawa (or maybe Montreal on a weekend), and I'll move Heaven and Earth to be there. Aloha, Brad * I saw The Other Ones in Albany (Nov. 2002) and The Dead at Vernon Downs (June 2003), however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 quote: However...I wonder whether the (considerable, I've heard) musical talent of the members of DSO would be better turned towards the creation of new music. almost every member of DSO is involved with their own side project creating individual/original music. check out John & Kevin with The Mix, featuring Melvin Seals, Jeff Pevar, and Greg Anton for starters oh yeah, i'm not really comparing momack....i'm just saying a Dark Star Orchestra show blows the fuck out of a Bobby Ratdog show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shainhouse Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I didn't mean to sound rude. I've seen DSO twice, once acoustic and once electric at 8/18/02 and they just didn't do it for me. My personal opinion. I don't doubt their individual talent or love of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Two comments and I will cease to play in this thread. 1-I love what DSO,Caution Jam,Rose Garland all do and I thank them for doing it,all do it very well IMO. 2-There was and never will be....Anything like a Grateful Dead concert! Just my thoughts..... quote: They're a band beyond description, Like Jehovah's favorite choir People joining hand in hand While the music played the band, Lord They're setting us on fire. Crazy rooster crowin' midnight, Balls of lightin' roll along Old men sing about their dreams, Women laugh and children scream And the band keeps playin' on. Keep on dancin' thru the daylight, Greet the mornin' air with song No ones's noticed, but the band's all pack and gone. Was it ever there at all? But they keep on dancin' C'mon children, C'mon children, Come on clap your hands Well the cool breeze came on Tuesday, And the corn's a bumper crop And the fields are full of dancin' Full of singin' and romancin' The music never stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 quote: I've seen DSO twice, once acoustic and once electric at 8/18/02 that was 2 sets Shain, in one day! the acoustic opened the Jamgrass festival and the electric ended the show. I was there, as was smellypants a recreated show is different btw...you/we got a smokin' catfish john...not done often by the DSO bunch Show #860 - Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at The Pageant, Saint Louis, MO Performing 10/31/2003 Original Setlist 1:Space> Bucket, Ramble On, BIODTL, Althea, Race Is On*, She Belongs To Me*, B T Wind*, Push Comes To Shove, Walk In The Sunshine, Dupree's Diamond Blues, Greatest 2:Werewolves, Dancin> Blow Away, Scarlet> Fire, St Stephen> Drumz> Cosmic Charlie> Uncle John Encore: Strange Man, Box Of Rain Filler: None HAPPY HALLOWEEN - BIODTL was 31 beats - *Eaton played acoustic now that's what i'm talkin' `bout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 hmmm, dso is a lot, and i mean a lot more talented than our local dead cover bands.... BUT, dso has nothing, absolutely nothing, on Ratdog. Oh, i preferred the stand up bass with RD. and that Toronto show wasn't as good as the famed Royal Oak show. BUT, i still had the time of my life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 quote:dso has nothing, absolutely nothing, on Ratdog. don't think that's their intention ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 i wrote that in response to: quote: However, I remember thinking to myself, as good as that Greatest Story was, Dark Star Orchestra IS the bomb!!! Lisa wailing out the lyrics along side Rob, is hair raising! I just didn't get that from Ratdog I had an awesome night, but put DSO in that same room, recreating 5/7/77 and we'll all be smiling for days you are right, the local cover bands around here aren't nearly as talented as dso, and i have seen them a few times, BUT, as i said above, dso, has nothing on Ratdog. The Ratdog show in Toronto made me feel much happier than the dso show i saw....and i travelled a lot further for the dso show... Id just like to point out that there is a happy medium between your view and shainhouse's views... dso is a great band, better than your average coverband, but nothing on the real thing, which Ratdog is. Hell, id take the original Zen Tricksters with Boracco over dso. But thats not possible, as Robby is playing with the big boys now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 quote: Hell, id take the original Zen Tricksters with Boracco over dso. The Tricksters as a 3 piece are fantastic! I'll take them any day over Ratdog! You know what a HUGE part of it is? I know these people personally I've hung out with Jeff, Tom and Klyph on many occasions over the past year. I've sat next to them in the green room sharing bowls and singing away. DSO and The Zen Tricksters are close friends and a double bill on a Canadian tour would really be the bomb! Even DSO don't interpret old `60's Dead the way The Tricksters can, Jeff Mattson sounds very similar to a young Jerry. I've heard DSO jam in the green room, or sing on the tour bus. I've been to way more DSO shows than I have Dead, or their sidebands, so I'm going with what I know and love I guess. My experience with Dark Star is more personal than any band I have liked or seen, so I'm obviously biased it's true though what you said about the attendance. DSO will sell out all 3 nights in NYC at the end of this month. When they played the Warfield in San Fran last, they sold out 2 nights. Betty Cantor-Jackson, Mountain Girl (or MG as she asked me to call her), Kid, Boots, John Barlow, Jerilyn, Steve Parish, Vince, Bob, Bill...they all go, have gone, continue to go, or have played with DSO! These folks ARE the Grateful Dead family, and they love this band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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