Raptor moves...

[Basher]

Wow, you are all over the place. At this point I'm not even sure what you are arguing. Listen, in a cap world you have to get lucky with your deals, and at the time, the Calderon deal raised not a single eyebrow in the NBA. Yes, in retrospect, it was a failure, as was the O'Neal deal. Bargnani I am not so sure about, but whatever.

"My point is this man, if they're making the right business decisions, and the deals all make sense, then how come they can't compete?"

Decisions don't happen in a vacuum. That should be obvious. You should also appreciate that the ascension to power in any sport is an evolutionary process. Unless you clear the deck and make a huge splash (a la Boston and Miami) building a winner takes years, and you have to get lucky with the moves you make.

I want to know, how many NBA teams "can compete" under your parameters?

[Schwa.]

I can't believe you guys are still discussing this.

good on ya.

[Thorgnor]

There's about five or ten teams that seem to exist for no other reason than to support the winners league. You have to beat someone in order to win. The bottom feeders are just proving grounds it seems.

and yes, I'm all over the place. Things connect, sometimes from totally different, unexpected, and possibly contradictory ways. Try and keep up.

"Evolution" as an idea isn't about luck, it is about fitting your circumstances or not. If wins were food the Raps would be extinct already. There's more to success and evolution than capitalization.

PS. my eyebrows were raised. They got rid of Ford, and somehow Calderon's numbers went down!?!?!?!? Magically? Unpredictably?!?!?!?!? It's like the competition factor on the team didn't exist. Both Ford and Calderon had something to work for. It doesn't take a psychologist to figure out that they weren't in a vacuum either. That's tangible, but it ain't business, it's survival as far as they were concerned.

I suggest this;

Nothing Personal, Just Business: A Guided Journey into Organizational Darkness by Howard F. Stein

If you think Miami's free agent success happened because of cap space then I think you're crazy, simple and plain.

There's a lot more behind that than a ledger. And I have no evidence to back that up. But I think Colangelo probably would agree with you before he would agree with me so thanks for the insight.

My argument is this. The NBA is not just a business, it's a basketball league and a business and a lot of other things as well. So to use money as the sole reason for anything that happens, win or lose, is shortsighted. Even the dough isn't in a vacuum. I don't think luck had anything to do with the Gasol deal, or with Artest and Odom going to LA. I think it might be a good excuse for other teams to not have to blame themselves for a fuckedup deal that was good for the books though.

I don't love the NBA, I love watching good basketball. Lately, with the state of officiating in the playoffs, they aren't even producing that consistently. The Raps can lose me as a fan, I can already feel my coat turning, and if it's only business then don't go calling me a traitor. Nothing personal right?

BTW, I was the one with an opinion, you were the one who needed to shoot me down. I base my opinions on lots of stuff, and if we don't always think alike, good. Probably means we live different lives, eh? Different perspectives. Too bad that seems to mean you can't see the value of my opinions.

My feeling about the future of the Raptors, as I've said before, is not based on the balance sheet. You won't convince me I'm wrong by waiving one around.

[Thorgnor]

Hey I was thinking, if the cap space and the salaries are all a matter of public record then why wouldn't the raps office have done some math on the Barnes deal as far as Orlando's figures? I'm actually asking. I don't understand the business remember.

[Thorgnor]

I can't believe you guys are still discussing this.

good on ya.

It's just business.

[Schwa.]

Ya lost me.

[Basher]

Hey I was thinking, if the cap space and the salaries are all a matter of public record then why wouldn't the raps office have done some math on the Barnes deal as far as Orlando's figures? I'm actually asking. I don't understand the business remember.

Seeing as nobody actually knows exactly what was proposed, I have no idea. But yes, Orlando, Barnes' agent and the Raptors were all seemingly clueless.

[Basher]

"If you think Miami's free agent success happened because of cap space then I think you're crazy, simple and plain."

Miami's free agent success REQUIRED having practically ZERO players under contract, creating the space to achieve their plan.

[Thorgnor]

and that's all

[Thorgnor]

Raps catch a break, again...

Calderon out of world championships with an injury, should surely increase his trade stock... fuck'd.