deranger Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 It seems obvious to me from an outsiders point of view that, like the military, cops look out and protect one another in an extremely tight-knit fraternal way. They're protecting one another from outside scrutiny, which by the nature of the job (risking life) they feel entitled to. In other words, if I'm going to risk my life protecting the public (and strangers at that), don't ask questions about my methods. I agree there are probably huge amounts of tolerance and collusion between officers with regard to "unbecoming" activities that police engage in. Which is exactly why they don't speak out about it. What happens in the force stays in the force or some such nonsense. Also, consider the massive ostracism that must occur when a cop decides to speak out (or up) about police activities. That's usually enough for most people to look the other way. Or perhaps cops take care of it themselves code Red style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Then why aren't the majority of police officers just as interested in rooting out this behaviour?How do you know they arent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yalls paintbrush is painting too wide again. I'm betting professional, dignified, polite and upstanding officers far outnumber the meatheads and assholes that get 99% of the column inches written about all police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartamophone Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Then why aren't the majority of police officers just as interested in rooting out this behaviour?How do you know they arent? Well, when was the last time you heard of an active police officer blowing the whistle on a colleague for burtality or misconduct? There are examples out there, but they are few and far between when compared with the number of complaints - even legit, substantiated complaints - that come from civilians. It would be naive to argue that there is not a widely accepted culture of willful blindness among police officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartamophone Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yalls paintbrush is painting too wide again.The internet is no place for rational, contextualized discussion. My suggestion to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 It seems obvious to me from an outsiders point of view that, like the military, cops look out and protect one another in an extremely tight-knit fraternal way.I agree with everything you've just written in your full post. So then why would you say that we shouldn't rush to pass judgment on the whole force? If they are implicitly condoning this type of behaviour then they're just as much a part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peipunk Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm betting professional, dignified, polite and upstanding officers far outnumber the meatheads and assholes that get 99% of the column inches written about all police. This is my experience and opinion, thanks AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 99% of the police I've encountered have been stand up folks....BUT sadly the 1% that remains is cause enough for me not to trust them outright.I'm certain it's different for everyone, that's just where I stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak By Night Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I know it's been said before, but I completely agree with AD.Perhaps one of the undercover police officers who regularly lurk this board in search of pot smokers can chime in on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 The right answer:I'm betting professional, dignified, polite and upstanding officers far outnumber the meatheads and assholes that get 99% of the column inches written about all police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 undoubtedly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) It seems obvious to me from an outsiders point of view that' date=' like the military, cops look out and protect one another in an extremely tight-knit fraternal way.[/quote']I agree with everything you've just written in your full post. So then why would you say that we shouldn't rush to pass judgment on the whole force? If they are implicitly condoning this type of behaviour then they're just as much a part of the problem.I think it would help if we had a more balanced approach to investigating and holding police accountable. Right now it seems as though police protect themselves way too much (SIU is staffed with mostly ex-police - whose interest are they representing?), and public criticism is met with much the same as we have here in the defense of police: criticize one, you're criticizing all. This is not the intent but the result of knee-jerk reaction on all sides. Outlandish behavior (police brutality) is met with criticism of the force generally when it was the actions of one or few that were unjust, and the police view a criticism of one as criticism of all. If we could separate and hold accountable the few officers who engaged in this activity, and publicly scrutinize their actions without invoking police behavior generally (which I think both sides do) maybe we could find more realistic and pragmatic solutions to police oversight. I think we mostly do a good job of walking a fine line between making sure police act according to our laws and allowing them to do the job we've tasked them with. The most useful solution is to give the SIU arms length independence and keep a vigilant watch over police activity. Not a write blank cheque for police actions because they chose to risk their lives defending us. I want them there to help me, but I want to make sure I have the tools to hold them accountable - as someone said earlier, great power, great responsibility. As far as paintbrushes are concerned, I wonder how its possible for Metro Toronto Police to be demonstrably racist when it comes to pulling over visible minorities (so-called "driving while black") and we not use a wide paintbrush to draw attention to this? If this was the behavior of a few bad apples, why then does the polices own stats show similar behavior across the board? This isn't one cruiser pulling over 50 black youth in cars every day, this is SYSTEMATIC pulling over of black youth in cars for NO reason other than being black. And I'm not making this stat up, as you may recall the police sued the Toronto Star over the article series and lost as the Star demonstrated it was the polices own statistics that proved this. Edited February 8, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Even though there has been no question posed here, only opinion, The right answer:I'm betting professional, dignified, polite and upstanding officers far outnumber the meatheads and assholes that get 99% of the column inches written about all police. :bonghit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 here's another example of police arrogance on a more simple matter of public space. http://www.thestar.com/news/fixer/article/910608--the-fixer-no-overtime-parking-tickets-for-police-carswithout getting into your other rants, i found this one to be particularly funny. you think it's arrogant of the police to park their cars close to work and not in the unsafe garage? come on man. where would you like the police, who work in a building and need to have quick access to their cars to respond when YOU need them as quick as possible, to park maybe blocks away in a commercial lot? Are you pissed when fire trucks are in the fire lane?common sense, please. renovations suck for everyone.just to temper that, the Star editorial about SIU stats is interesting. Time for a fresh look at that, and less interest from union lawyers at the expense of due process in cases where police need to be represented. Have you looked at the number of complaints in a force compared to the number of police in a force compared to the number of calls responded to? That might be good info for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) sorry wrong article. http://www.thestar.com/news/article/912423--hume-police-park-their-arrogance-for-all-to-seefrom this article, "In a column this week, Lakey quotes Supt. Hugh Ferguson, who runs 52 Division. He explains that the square is closed because repairs are being made to the underground garage. When it’s done, Ferguson said, we’ll stop parking in the square.The only problem is that it’s not true. For years the police have used this square as their own parking lot when it suits them. There are photographs to prove it.No one would disagree that police need to be able to park in places that would otherwise be illegal, but this is no emergency; the real issue is the personal convenience of those employed at 52 Division.However understandable — wouldn’t we all love to park wherever we felt like it — it is irritating, illegal, and worse, indicative of an institution grown complacent and so self-satisfied it is losing touch not only with those it is meant to serve, but those who pay its way."however, having read this other article, it was my misunderstanding that the reno's were already completed. Sorry, the star printed several articles about this over the holidays and I incorrectly inferred that the underground lot they use was fixed and were simply continuing to park outside. My mistake and I admit it. here's another article on the story and where the misunderstanding may have stemmed from. Its been reported that some have suggested the reno is done. They are apparently wrong. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/fixer/article/856598--the-fixer-police-cars-cramp-pedestrian-spaceHonestly, I could care less about where they park public space or not. And I'm not suggesting this is typical of police. There are legitimate grievances we have against the Metro police and using public space for parking is very low on that scale as far as I'm concerned. As for rants, how about $365 million for police for G20? Does the force need 4 new sound cannons? That seems like a legitimate concern. Edited February 8, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 What does the budget of the G20/G8 (forced upon Toronto by Ottawa) have to do with the conduct of police en masse? Pick one discussion topic...And, if you don't care about the parking issue, why do you seem to care so much about the parking issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now