SmoothedShredder

That's awesome... I was worried after years of Westfallia's that they were never going to go back to the old bus design... they went back alright... BACK TO THE FUTURE... So Are the Surf board/solar panels multi-use, or just for show/fuel Edit... and there's also this going for it: Volkswagen tops JD Power list for most environmentally friendly

I don't know if that can be laid at anyone's door in our time. I would say, though, that one of the 19th century architects of conservative politics, Herbert Spencer, used to argue that government should remove itself from garbage collection, health care, etc. (everything except police and national security), so that individuals would be most unfettered to pursue their own natural abilities and pursuits... the ones who already had the means to do so, that is; the poor were supposed to just die, and so leave the gene pool (and society itself) cleaner. That was obviously then, of course, but I hear strains of that contempt for the already-marginal in the policies of the CPC (viz. the nickle-and-diming of social programs a few days ago). I do, though, keep trying to look for that middle ground, hopeless as it seems sometimes. (Btw, I've missed you around here, W . Where you been at?) I see what you are saying and respect it, but I have to disagree, or atleast seek some clarification on where you stand... if you stand at all... re: can't find middle ground Before answering this myself, can I get where you stand on this? Becasue normally I would assume that it would mean you would want alot of government... and that does have a cost... a dynamic cost, and we can't just print money and make it all better... inherant in money is a form of bartering (though I believe subsidies truly supress the free hand of the market, and increase suffering in places/nations which cannot even afford the subsides, then we go in turn blackmail these countries to sell of coffee/banana's/drugs at a discount). Are you all for finacial equality, and at what point? City/Nation/Global... or perhaps more of a controlled min/max equation? What happens if one person can make alot of money, and through the taxes, they can help to pay for many people MRI's, at no cost to those who need it but can't afford it. Isn't that the true nature of the system we actually have in place now? Other than taxes how else will the government make money? Ought we now punish those who have earned money by taking it back, and now branding them as evil? What happens if you ever climb up tax brackets? Shall you give everything immediately to charity? Or will you puposely avoid advancement for fear that you will become something you don't like? Anyways, to actually answer one question I was out east for a Month. A great trip! I biked across Newfoundland with a friend and some neat people I met at Evolve who were biking accross Canada for Charity... Originally we were going to PEI, but we both decided that it was fate, and off we went with our new friends to the hilliest... windiest province in the world!!! EVERYDAY WAS A HEAD WIND... and it's constantly uphill cause it takes so little time to go down one, and 5 times as much to go up! What a great place. And the East Coast is so fabulous... such receptive and supportive music fans, and such happy people. I even played at an Open Mic in St.John's on George street with some of Great Big Sea in the crowd... How Newfie is that!? It was a slap in the face to come back here to Toronto, and I miss the East Coast so much. When I got back to the board, I realized that perhaps it was just a place for people to go and vent, and that debate isn't really what this place was all about. And since I'm related to Jaydawg, his many Jambands trials and tribulations, and I'm not very popular round these parts, decided maybe it was best to just stay away... that was until I read some more of the BS I've seen in the last couple of days. There's no need to tell someone to put their heads up their ass. Now it's time to open a can of whoopass... now where is my brainrewashing machine!

It's okay, he's just showing his loyalty to Prime Minister Hux... of all the generalizations in this thread, he picks one from the person with a dissenting view... the poetry is priceless... I think they just want me to leave again so they can enjoy their heddy 'hate harper' jam.

Is that all you have to say?

You guys should form a band.

Have a great day in the Great White North!

Now there's something we can both be proud of! (?) Didn't realize that's the only reason there weren't people picking up shit off the platforms at VIA Rail... nor did I realize that we were in a pissing match with California... Really what are you talking about? And FWIW, nobody owes us anything, but it certainly is nice when we get it (Health Care, Schools, Roads, Garbage Collection, Safety Standards and Enforcement), but still all I seem to hear is "MORE PLEASE.............you're evil."

And how come you can make a comparison to another nation? And then no one else can, as if you hold the supreme ownership of international comparissions? Why do deadheads always make themselves seem so closed minded by telling others they aren't as opened minded as they are? And FYI, 23% of Torontonians voted Conservative... would you prefer if we all left town so your Torontopian Society can begin?

It sounds like your country consists of both the 416 and the 647 area codes.

I'm not sure when 'happiness' became part of this discussion, but I think it holds true for both. Definately there comes time for self-control for both 'ends' of Happiness and Pride. But if you are happy all the time, and never have the pendulum swing to the suffering side of the equation!, all the power to you, and you can just ignore the rest. I consider myself far more stoic than Hedonistic, cause well frankly, I really despise the 'Terrible Tuesday'. I also realize that with self-control, I can still enjoy life, if only through a certain absence of pain through planning, and a general sense of 'keeping my head up'. That being said, there's still room for pride as a good. But certainly I can see examples of your suggestion where 'pride' gets in the way. I usually call that kind of 'pride': vanity. Sometimes I wonder if people around here would even want a Government? And if so, what would they want it to do? I think that if people would consider these things, they would realize just how valuble what we already have is, and perhaps maybe appreciate just how tricky it is to work out issues rationally, let alone adding the terms 'hate' and 'evil' and 'fecally' to the debate. That being said, I'm really quite proud of what 'we' as Canadians have as a whole. Sure it's got it's kinks, and of course we may have to ultimately answer to the Black Pope, or the FSM, but in the meantime, I think 'we' have a tremedous base to 'start' with at anytime we so choose to roll up the sleeves and get to work, or if needed to recover in the safety net. But I grow tired of the constant harassment which seems only destined to sabotage any collectivity through the current governmental system we could actually achieve, and perhaps that's the goal, but I don't like it... I think there certainly is alot of room for collectivity and the benefits in having 'agreements' between individuals such as money, or roads, and the government is a great place to do it... it's just too bad that some seem to absolutely reject it AND don't realize just how overlapping our lives actaully are, and how much self-control we actually need to tolerate each other, and keep things working. But if we could just learn to live with some of our fears, open our minds just a little bit, apologize a little more, and respect that others may hold a different view point (or worse yet, the same point of view but wearing a different flag), maybe we would actaully see some of the positive change I think we ALL are hoping for. And in general, I think this could deliver people huge dividends in happiness, if only through an absence of fear and hatred by those who are aflicted with it. Birdy: Good to be back... I think! :cool: Hopefully no one will notice me with these sunglasses!

This Party Got Freaky Last Year!

Why focus on the negative? And why participate in society AT ALL with such a finalist/defeatist view? Seems like Unibomber talk, from someone enjoying all the privildge of TV's, cars, schools, internet and everything else some kind of 'power' has provided us. Pride is a good thing, except when you have too much of it, and it makes you blind to what makes it good. When you act out of pride, and try to hurt someone else, you aren't making anything better... and that's really not pride to me, it's a failed attempt at pride. Pridelike, but missing key components. Besides, I believe the only way to make those receptive to your idea's who currently are not is to be kind, and through your convictions, you may attempt to persuade (or as it was put earlier manipulate (which I always though was sinister in tone, and therefore wrong)), others to agree... but if you paint an alternative of sadness, and fear, then I've found you really just scare people away, and then, who's your democracy? What is the 'Evil' about in Evil Mouse anyways? No doubt politics is a tight wire act... and yes it can get frustrating to see the participants fall from time to time... but the difference between them and us is that they are acutally up there doing it... and for sure, it must be tough when the audience is booing them for the service they provide... no matter what political stripe they wear. Perhaps cheering them on would be better... perhaps they would get 'better' faster... and all these good idea's will be heard and accepted... or... as it seems to me, we can coast on the backs of all these neat machines!

What the hell is wrong with us? How does a thread about pride turn into this? Why would anyone say something like this, and then think they are the better person?