WHere's Hux when ya need him

[secondtube]

My other board i participate on, a fishing board (surprise, surprise), is having a vote aand discussion on who to vote for....

well over there, its about a 5:1 ratio PC to Liberal.

(hunters not wanting their guns taken away)

I was one of the few Lib supporters, and am trying to have them see why some people are voting Lib....

But dang, i only know so many points Pro Lib.

Hux, you'd be proud buddy.

Edited January 6, 2006 by Guest

[Schwa.]

damn rednecks, someone should shoot them.

[timouse]

damn rednecks, someone should shoot them.

if the government would relax the rules on hunting rifles, eventually enough of them will mistakenly shoot one another to cull the population.

[bradm]

Hmmm...timouse, you caused an interesting question to appear in my head: would Canada be safer if obtaining a license for firearms was similar to obtaining a license to drive? I checked the existing process, and all it seems to be is a form to fill out (and fees to be paid), after which a background check is done. There doesn't seem to be any competence test, though. Has any party (ever) proposed requiring license applicants to take and pass tests, both written and practical (e.g., marksmanship, cleaning and maintenance, etc.)? (I'm not suggesting that this will help alleviate gun violence, it's more me wondering why this kind of thing isn't done now.)

Aloha,

Brad

[\/\/illy]

well over there, its about a 5:1 ratio PC to Liberal.

This is something that really bothers me. I'm by no means attacking you Steve because I see this everywhere but, there is no PC party. PC stood for Progressive Conservative which was an old slightly right federal conservative party that no longer exists (for argument's sake). What you are referring to is the Conservative party which is the current, far-right, federal conservative party. It's important to note that this is really the Reform party with a friendlier name.

I've actually heard people say they were voting PC because their families always have and that couldn't be all bad. I have to take lots of time to explain to them that this is not the party their families used to vote for. Not is it the party that Sir John A. Macdonald founded as our first Prime Minister.

The conservative party is the far-right, inbred, backwoods, redneck, seperatist party from Alberta. Make no mistake about it.

[secondtube]

i'm sorry willy, i didn't even know there was that big of a difference.

how about 5:1 conservative to liberal.

scarey any way you look at it.

[StoneMtn]

Yes, it is scary.

The fact is there was a fairly big divide between the old PC and Reform Parties, and unfortunately the new party is using a similar "brand" to that of the old PC party to get some support from moderate right-wingers, since they already have the extreme-right on their side. I think \/\/illy's correct to remind people of the history of the "Conservative" Party, before we forget.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

The Democrats and Republicans did a kind of axial flip half way through the last century that might bear some similarities.

I think we have every reason to get anxious about this election. I'm pleased to see my own parents having recalibrated their voting patterns having seen what the Conservatives became in Ontario under Harris.

At least the CPC is candid about their change, inasmuch as they dropped the "Progressive" from the name. (Kinda like the Dead no longer being Grateful .)

[Hux]

Hey!

Steve, you could point them to today's announcement on cleaning up waterways - good for fisher folk - no?

Other than that, if their beef is of course with "scandal" remind them this stuff is all Chretien era, Martin got rid of him, etc. You could also point to the fiscal record of previous Conservative Gov't's, ie. Mulroney and Harris, they have been financial disasters.

Also, today we learn the Cons will roll back our tax cuts for low income, and their GST cut is essentially a flat tax that favours the rich. Ie. buy a loaf of bread or a cruiseship you get the same % back, who benefits more? those that can buy bigger ticket items - very unfair.

Times are tough out here, well everywhere it seems.

[Birdy]

The conservative party is the far-right, inbred, backwoods, redneck, seperatist party from Alberta. Make no mistake about it.

i am way too tired right now to jump all over this, but let it be known that inside i'm all fired up and have shit to say about it. this goes hand in hand with the liberals are corrupt campaign and there's a whole 'nother thread to see how that got beaten out.

[Hux]

The percentage of Conservative MP's who were Reform MP's is likely around 70%+

Of that 70% - the percentage who are on record as hard right wingers or evangelical activist is also likely well over 50%.

If I had the time, I could find evidence to this effect.

These people may be keeping their views to themselves, but in the past they have been on record. They are not Progressive Conservatives.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I'm off to Cheryl Gallant territory tonight. I expect there will be some interesting conversations.

[Birdy]

inbred, backwoods, redneck,

the source

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

the source

Didn't that use to be Radio Shack?

[Birdy]

once upon a time

[StoneMtn]

This thread makes me miss Hux even more.

Me too, but I can't seem to get him to drive up here and see me. I'm counting on you to get his ass up here next week, Megs.

[Lazlo]

If his ass is all your interested in I'm the player to talk to.

[payce-ley]

the Conservatives get voted in every 15-20 years

basically to remind people (and teach new generations) why they never vote in the Conservatives

calling the conservatives less corrupt than the liberals is one of the funnier things I get to hear... all parties have corrupt members, but the top of the heap is always the bend the country over a barrel for the sake of a crooked dollar Conservatives

what are the 2 things that've mostly screwed Canadians in the past 30 years? GST and Free Trade... the Liberals didn't abolish GST? whatever, who created it? at least the economy (with GST) has gone up under the liberals and people have jobs... even with GST Mulroney was bankrupting the country... the conservatives always offer the public a dollar then charge five as a service charge

some of the Conservative scandals during 6 years of Mulroney:

Tunagate: This 1985 fiasco brought down Brian Mulroney's minister of fisheries and oceans and robbed a New Brunswick town of its main employer. The story broke on CBC's The Fifth Estate on Sept. 17, 1985: Fisheries minister John Fraser had overturned an order from his own inspectors and ordered a million cans of StarKist tuna released for sale to the public. The inspectors had said the tuna, packed at the StarKist plant in St. Andrews, N.B., was so badly spoiled that it wasn't even fit to be turned into catfood. The plant's owners had lobbied Fraser to release the cans for sale, saying they might shut the plant if the tuna couldn't be sold.

When the story broke, Fraser said he had sent samples of the tuna to two independent labs for testing, but those labs later said they hadn't finished their tests by the time Fraser decided to release the shipment. Six days after the scandal erupted, Mulroney asked Fraser to resign. In a twist the opposition parties were quick to exploit, Fraser and Mulroney both initially said that Mulroney had known about the original decision to release the tuna. The two men later said the prime minister had not known until the affair became public.

Fraser eventually went on to a new job, becoming Speaker in the House of Commons, but the 400 StarKist workers in St. Andrews weren't so lucky. The plant was shuttered after the company's market share slumped, and they were thrown out of work.

- - - - - - - -

In 1986, Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion Sinclair Stevens stepped down because of conflict of interest allegations related to a $2.6-million loan to a Stevens family company. André Bissonnette, the minister of state for transport, resigned in 1987 while the RCMP investigated his alleged involvement in land speculation.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Roch La Salle, who served Mulroney in the public works, and supply and services portfolios, left cabinet the same year after being charged with demanding a bribe and accepting money from businesses looking for government favours.

- - - - - - - - - - -

in 1991, not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling. He later pleaded guilty to 15 charges, paid a $50,000 fine and served four months in jail.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Airbus: (ie. - Prime Minister Mulroney himself caught lining his pockets) Long out of politics, former Progressive Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney was dragged back into the public arena, thanks to the RCMP and a lobbyist called Karlheinz Schreiber. As part of an investigation into Schreiber's role in an alleged plot involving secret commissions and kickbacks in deals for the purchase of airplanes and helicopters, the federal Justice Department sent a letter to the Swiss government. The 1995 letter alleged that Mulroney was also involved in the arrangement, taking kickbacks on the sale of Airbus planes to Air Canada during his time as prime minister.

When the letter became public, Mulroney sued the federal government for defamation, seeking $50 million in damages. Two years later, he settled for $2 million in legal costs and an apology from Ottawa. The RCMP finally ended its criminal investigation against Mulroney in April 2003, citing a lack of evidence.

- - - for anyone interested this is a better rundown of the Airbus fiasco: taking envelopes full of cash

- - - - - - - - - - -

not to mention The Mulroney Tapes, unquestionable evidence of what a deeply disturbed, paranoid, self obsessed prick was running the country

[Birdy]

*sigh*

if mulroney didn't exist...

my favourite prime minister of them all was john diefenbaker for his principle alone.

canadians vote conservatives in every fifteen - twenty years to make the tough calls that the liberals are too pansy-assed to make.

if freetrade is destroying us (which without would in fact accomplish this lot faster) why haven't the liberals tried to back peddle it? same can be said for the GST. they only party that has remotely mentioned backpeddling GST is the conservatives themselves!

the mulroney tapes attacks a man and can't reflect the entire political party.

[SaggyBalls]

"The conservative party is the far-right, inbred, backwoods, redneck, seperatist party from Alberta. Make no mistake about it."

theyr'e the people in the small towns that tend to be more connected to old money and white collar practice. Can we say the corporate oil party?

to label them backwards and rednecked is just as petty and immature as being backwards and rednecked. If you're above it then don't talk like you're not.

[payce-ley]

the mulroney tapes attacks a man and can't reflect the entire political party.

Mulroney was chosen by the Conservative party to lead them... how much more indicative of a party can you get? and the tapes don't attack the man, the man sinks his own credibility by talking like a self adoring lunatic

I liked Joe Clark but the party voted him out in favor of Mulroney

haven't heard a valid arguement yet on what "tough decisions" need to be made besides the usual thinly veiled 'offer the public some money which we'll steal right back while imposing the means to limit their freedoms and opportunities while increasing the powers of government and multi-national investors'

the middle class vote the conservatives in each time on the promise of more personal money in their pockets then vote them out 6 years later once they realize the only people better off are the rich, regardless of what they keep getting promised

edit to add: as for gst, we've gotten used to it and it doesn't sting so much any more now that the country's books have moved back into the black (under liberal rule)... it only really hurt at the time it was put in... "hey, we're going through a recession, lets add an extra tax for the comman person and give multinational corporations huge tax breaks"

free trade isn't an easy thing to back out of once you've commited without starting a war, or at least an embargo... in the meantime we'd obviously be much better off selling our softwood lumber to Asia or Europe, though I'm sure the States are going to kick us that $2 billion unfair trading settlement any day now

fighting United Parcel Service to keep Canada Post running to the tune of $200 million was lots of fun as well... UPS said they couldn't compete fairly becuase of goverment subsidies

billions in lost revenue a year after the dozen sick cows were destroyed

free trade sounds great in principle but boils down to the biggest country involved pulls the strings heavily in their favor... Canadian businesses are learning to be hesitant before trying to take advantage of free trade... as I said, the safer money is in Asia and Europe anyways... I have no qualms with Mexico as a free trade partner (sadly they're the ones getting screwed the worst by the states over it all, nobody likes free trade in shantytown)

standing up and making a "tough choice" would've been saying no to a blanket free trade that mainly benefits big businesses and instead of blowing billions through Mulroney's lawyer buddies to draw up the legislation, investing the money into upgrading Canada's cargo ship fleet

standing up and saying no to participating in an unjustified war in Iraq was pretty ballsy... though to me that wasn't a "tough choice", it was common human decency... why countries the world round respect and admire Canada

Edited January 8, 2006 by Guest

[c-towns]

while i was home in Chatham, I noticed all of the VanKestern Conservitive signs littering the streets, it reminded me of electing a president in highschool, total popularity contest. (in Chatham anyway)

[Birdy]

not really c-towns.. he's running against a comiskey.. comiskey is soooo chatham too.

[c-towns]

I would have to say VanKestern would win a highschool popularity contest in Chatham just based on amount of relatives.

and you're brother has been spotted recently, extremely drunk with red teeth.

[Birdy]

payce-ley, i won't argue the downfalls of free trade with you as there are many and most of everything you have mentioned, i too can acknowledge the negativity of; however, free trade has created a ridiculous amount of jobs for canadians and i think that is what the Canadian government under Mulroney had in mind when they signed the deal, not our lumber or our cows.. the lumber incident is unfortunate, but not really as much as we paint it out to be.. i mean, US contractors PREFER our trees and continue to buy. sick cows is a call of nature.. nafta sure as hell can't be blamed for that.

joe clark ruled. his daughter isn't half bad either

as for mulroney as a representive of the conservative party, i think you may be on the border of judging a book by it's cover. as i said before "if mulroney didn't exist". i'm sure a few mind sets would be different (in the least).