Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 yet, on oink alone has 650+ downloads (not including other torrent sites). Also according to Soundscan, 36% of the sales have come since he was nominated for the Polaris award. I'm totally shocked by this. Amazing album which hasn't even sold 1,500 copies but has probably been downloaded for free at least that many times. These are the people who suffer most from illegal downloading, and I count myself among the guilty offenders. Major eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 The trick is how to turn those free downloads (aka your new audience) into profit via touring. I don't see this as entirely bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 so who is it. i can't read the cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Miracle fortress - 5 Roses.Ollie, I see your point. It means 2,800 people listening to your music instead of 1,400, which is good. But if you imagine 7 bucks (or whatever "indie" cut he gets per disc) times even 500 copies, for a guy who lives in a shared co-operative art/living space with like 4 other people, and puts on shows in the living room to pay the rent, that's pretty huge.Honestly if I had had to guess how many copies he'd sold before reading this I probably would have said at least 10,000. Shows what I know about the state of independant artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Miracle Fortress is the brainchild of Graham Van Pelt, a Montreal-based multi-instrumentalist and vocalist who in this incarnation builds wall of sound pop songs in the tradition of Brian Wilson and Brian Eno. Originally from Stratford, Ontario, Graham is also a member of Montreal's Think About Life (Alien8 Recordings). He began to record as Miracle Fortress after co-founding the multi-functional art space/venue/studio space Friendship Cove with local artist Jack Dylan in Montreal's Griffintown in late 2005. A 5 song EP, Watery Grave, led to a collaboration with Secret City Records in 2006 to record a full length LP. Graham spent a larger part of the year building into the Friendship Cove studio and recording the Miracle Fortress debut, taking time out to perform as a solo act opening for bands like Love is All, Vic Chestnut, and locals Sunset Rubdown and Islands. Five Roses was completed in January 2007 and is an ambitious and engaging record of pop songs that echo My Bloody Valentine and the Beach Boys alike. It will be released in May 2007. Sunset Rubdown's Jordan Robson-Cramer (who also plays on the B-side to the first single), Telefauna's Adam Waito, and SS Cardiacs' Jessie Stein have recently joined Graham in the live lineup of Miracle Fortress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 he's from stratford eh? anyone know how old this guy is?not that i don't see your point blane, but would people on oink have otherwise bought the album? my guess is no. meaning those people would not have heard the band, ruling out word of mouth, burning for friends, supporting the live show. and the people on oink could be anywhere in the world. i doubt he has Australian distribution. it's not all bad. industry is changing.i still haven't heard miracle fortress. i should get on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 not that i don't see your point blane, but would people on oink have otherwise bought the album? my guess is no. meaning those people would not have heard the band, ruling out word of mouth, burning for friends, supporting the live show. and the people on oink could be anywhere in the world. i doubt he has Australian distribution. it's not all bad. industry is changing.That's what I was gonna say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 (edited) He's mid-20's I guess. Probably a couple years younger than you. Don't remember specifically when he moved to town.I see your point about the % of downloaders that end up buying. I'm not trying to argue in favour of the "record industry" model. He's put the entire album up on myspace himself, so obviously he wants it to be heard at whatever cost, but I'm saying here's a guy that recorded what I see to be a friggin' killer album, and you can probably spend the sum total of what he made off it in one night out with a few friends. Kinda depressing that's all.You can actually order the album for 12.99 from secretcity records with free shipping, so they're hardly pricing themselves out of the market.Edit: Perhaps the moral I'm reaching for here is "if you want to try before you buy fine, that's the reality of the market today. but if it's a good album and you're getting some listens out of it, support the artist by paying htem for their 'art'". How's that? Edited October 2, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 works for me!now i want to hear this album..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://www.myspace.com/miraclefortress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Sanchez Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I love this album. One of the best things I've heard lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_llama Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 if he comes to hamilton, i'll go to the show and put money in his pocket, and if he's a real charming performer, will buy the cd on his second time through :-)---these days you gotta prove yourself through your shows, and you have to be content to make a living off a smaller group of hardcore fans. the age of the rock star is coming to an end i think...and i agree... without free downloads it's very likely his sales would be even lower. After all, i'm gonna head to oink now and see what I can find, and if I like it I'll hit a show. If I didn't have that option, and his name came across hcal, how would I know it was worth seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Miracle fortress - 5 Roses.Ollie, I see your point. It means 2,800 people listening to your music instead of 1,400, which is good. But if you imagine 7 bucks (or whatever "indie" cut he gets per disc) times even 500 copies, for a guy who lives in a shared co-operative art/living space with like 4 other people, and puts on shows in the living room to pay the rent, that's pretty huge.Honestly if I had had to guess how many copies he'd sold before reading this I probably would have said at least 10,000. Shows what I know about the state of independant artists.I can whole-heartedly guarantee that most, if not all, those 650 people would not have purchased the disc. What are you, the RIAA? Count those 650 people as enlightened, and future potential customers of their live or recorded music instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I can't wait until my download is over to see what all the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 (edited) Miracle fortress - 5 Roses.Ollie' date=' I see your point. It means 2,800 people listening to your music instead of 1,400, which is good. But if you imagine 7 bucks (or whatever "indie" cut he gets per disc) times even 500 copies, for a guy who lives in a shared co-operative art/living space with like 4 other people, and puts on shows in the living room to pay the rent, that's pretty huge.Honestly if I had had to guess how many copies he'd sold before reading this I probably would have said at least 10,000. Shows what I know about the state of independant artists.[/quote']I can whole-heartedly guarantee that most, if not all, those 650 people would not have purchased the disc. What are you, the RIAA? Count those 650 people as enlightened, and future potential customers of their live or recorded music instead.Don't you start accusing me of funny accounting! I'm saying that 650+ downloaded from Oink, which is but one of dozens of sites. THus I was guestimating that there are probably as many downloads as album sales. Fuck just checking Mininova and there's a seed there with 1,700+ downloads (a 2nd seed has almost 400), so I was being WAY conservative. After that i guessed that 1/3 might have bought a copy (about 500). I've seen other people use 20% as the "could have bought one" number, but hey I think the album's great. Edited October 2, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I'm sure the number is much lower than that. I'd bet that it's under 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 the point isn't the # in my mind, the point is, imagine being a starving artist, seeing your work being downloaded by thousands of people and not getting a penny out of that. I'd make the same argument out of exploitative record deals with big labels. Both situations suck. Radiohead can afford to give away their music cause they're multi-millionaires. A dude putting out his first record and literally trying to scrape by based upon the buzz that he can create with it doesn't have that luxury. Yeah, he can tour incessantly and sell tickets that way, but I feel like it's unfortunate to see such an imbalance between the # of copies he actually gets paid for and the # of copies people have grabbed for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 the point isn't the # in my mind, the point is, imagine being a starving artist, seeing your work being downloaded by thousands of people and not getting a penny out of that. I'd make the same argument out of exploitative record deals with big labels. Both situations suck.I'd be ecstatic if I saw that 1700 people from one site alone were downloading my record. I'd try to find out where they come from and plan my tour around that.Maybe even post a note in the forum for the site thanking people for the interest and pointing them to a place of purchase and ask for their support.It's all about exploiting the new system.Not that I don't see your point Blane, I just think artists will get stuck in the past if they harp over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodRev Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I would bet the guy is ecstatic that people even care to download the record. Propogation of his record, if it's any good, will hopefully lead to some decent buzz and maybe some press, andd maybe he'll be lucky enough for a (somewhat established) small label to throw him a couple grand to hit the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodRev Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Haha, you beat me to it, ollie. We both even used 'ecstatic'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 he should hire Lars Ulrich as his manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 hey don't go draggin him into MY bitching. I don't even know if he gives a shit about it.Anyway, I'm clearly in the minority here thinking that we should make an effort to pay emerging artists for their work if we like it, but I hope that at least if you enjoy the album you'll check him out if he comes around. He doesn't tour a ton but he does make it around ontario and quebec from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I don't think that you're in the minority. People still buy what they like. You're just creating an unsubstantiated relationship with # downloads to a guy starving.Is he really starving? Do you know what his current financial situation is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Anyway, I'm clearly in the minority here thinking that we should make an effort to pay emerging artists for their work if we like it, but I hope that at least if you enjoy the album you'll check him out if he comes around.I don't disagree with you here. Of course artists should be paid for their work but this isn't a perfect world.Where we disagree is in our reactions to the number of downloads. You see it as potential lost sales, I see it as a market base to exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 You see it as potential lost sales, I see it as a market base to exploit.So they can gouge their fans later to make up for all that lost revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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