RC: loves Ron Paul

[jonyak]

Hey Jonyak, I'm curious to hear some examples of nutjob Libretarians. Of course there are crazies in all walks of life, but I'd be interested to hear what opinions they held that turned you off.

hmm Ok well one guy I talked to was a crazy gun freak, he beleived that everyone should be required to have a gun. he then went on to explain to me how he had guns in strategic spots all over his house in case someone broke in and he could get to them in good time. he also went on to tell me all about the penetrating power of his weapons and how they could go through the walls. He then went on to argue with me that guns are not created to kill things. and that it is a tool. this guys was nuts.

Then another guy who seemed to think that the best way to do things was to turn all of the services over to private businesses to run. Things like jails, schools, creation of highways. He seemed to think this would be a cheaper and more efficient way of doing these things. He then went on to talk about free market. where the gov't has pretty much nothign to do with the people. He told me that businesses should be free to run themselves however they see fit.

Oh and the guy who told me that global warming was a fraud and that it was being used to control people. That businesses should be free to destroy the environment and pollute because if they don;t it is holding back economic growth.

What really got me about these people was there almost religious support of ron paul. that an there total inability to even consider a differing point of view. Yes I see some of there points and they sometimes made good arguments for certain aspects of libertarianism, but to me they just seemed like extremeists.

mostly they came across to me as conspiracy nuts. They all had the idea that everyone was out to get them.

Oh and one guy who told me that social security is a bad thing. It should be removed and that if you can't make it in the world you deserve to die on the street. When asked about mentaly ill and people who had few opportunities for advancement, he said it was all bullshit and that they are just lazy.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Guest

[FOWL]

Sorry about that django!!! The internet really doesn't help convey tone, I have to get used to using smiley faces! I was just ribbing you a bit about having feet on both sides of the fence. I totally get where you are coming from, although I disagree about bigger government merely due to the history of govt. on every nation right through history. I understand the utopian ideal for what government could and should be, I just feel that it is unrealistic, and corrupt people and organisations will always find a way of infiltrating governmental organisations, which is why I believe govt. needs to be restricted and have it's power drastically reduced.

[FOWL]

thank you for responding jonyak. I won't go into too much detail about the issues brought up, but I'll just give a quick assesment and you can debate further if you wish.

In terms of guns, I'm not a gun nut, but I do agree that they are an important human tool that I feel people should be able to have if they so wish. Of course they were made to kill things, but we live in a world where having some security in your home is a positive thing. The number of gun accidents is absoutely miniscule, and there have been numerous cases of rampage shooters being gunned down by gun carrying citizens, and curiously enough, these cases are never trumpeted by the media, as tyrants through history know a key to control is disarming the population. Hitler did it, Stalin did it, and we see a concerted effort to disarm the American public today which is likely a losing battle! I disagree with gun control personally.

In terms of privatisation of all institutions, I have mixed feelings. it is a fact that government will do everything with a bloated beurocracy and waste immense amounts of tax payer money. Furthermore, it negates the freewill of deciding to opt out of certain services. Such as, if you want to be self sufficient and create your own energy, you still have to pay property taxes to maintain infrastructure. This issue is a complicated one, and I haven't fully come to terms with what should be privatised, and what should be public. I tend to be libretarian, but am not an anarchist, so it is tough decision.

I do agree that environmentalism has been hijacked to act as a control mechanism, the royal families and massive tycoons pump large amounts of money into these groups to serve as a control mechanism, and I believe it's usage there has only just begun. However, people should not be allowed to harm their neighbours, so things like pesticides, toxic dumping and all pollution that can be proven to have an adverse affect need to be governmentally restricted. So I am against his views about wanton environmental abandon, but I do NOT support the stealing of property already privately held, which is happening at an alarming rate in the US, kicking family farmers off their land to make way for superhighways and the like. Frequently flimsy environmental reasons are given, and then flagrantly ignored once big business/government gain control.

Social security I tend to support, but as an able bodied human I refuse to take part in when unemployed. I personally would prefer to see everyone have the other half of their paycheck back and see how voluntary charity would function with a massive influx of DI, but I wouldn't argue this point too strongly, as social security is one thing I am willing to allow democracy to decide for me.

[jonyak]

see though you have posed your views so that I thought about them.

I regularily post in another thread that is kind of a catch all for everything and all kinds of ideas. it tends to be rather no holds barred. It also tends to have a large population of libertarians. They tend to attack anyone that thinks different from them. I have been called anything from an idiot, to a fascist to a commi by these guys.

This is what has turned me away. I like that you can discuss your views without stuffing them down my throat and calling me an idiot.

if you want my opinions.

Guns. I personaly don;t think they are a good thing, but I also think if someone wants one that should be ok. But at the same time I don't think there is any reason a guy needs a fully automatic ak-47 in there household. and handguns.... well I am undecided on those.

privatisation. I think we have a very good system going right now. I think if we turn it all over to corporations we will get substandard services for more money. as we all know businesses always try to give the least for the most money.

Edited April 5, 2008 by Guest

[FOWL]

Well as I used to be far more left leaning, and gradually my opinions shifted pretty far to the right, I can see both sides of many of these arguments. The vast majority of people with more left leaning are truly trying to make society a better place, and in a perfect world they would be the best choices, except the reality of corruption at the highest levels of society has lead me to have to reasses and come to the conclusion that I have to err on the side of personal liberty up to the point that that liberty harms others of course. I totally see the point of fully automatic weapons having no purpose other than full scale combat, however, given the US governments violent recent history of oppression, I also can't blame someone for wanting serious firepower! I am pro handgun, I don't own one, but I see no reason people shouldn't be allowed them.

As I stated on the issue of privatisation, I feel neither option is good! Well I feel roads should one hundred percent be a public project. After that it gets tricky for myself, but is definately an issue that both sides have solid points on.