bald guy in a blanket

You know,

As words go it's hard to beat a well-placed "fuck" every now and again.

Good point, Canned Beats, about the ignorance of stuff and all.

Here's an interesting thing...when the world equalizes enough to have slurs about the dominant classes that actually hurt...we'll probably be enlightened enough to avoid them.

Jef

Hey,

That was my point too Birdy...

I think the answer is in this...

(Not that I want to continue this story but...)

Could someone make a list of his "lies"?

The things that he said or presented that are factually wrong.

No one called him a liar 'til he went after Bush.

What did he lie about?

We are having this discussion because we're meant to by forces that are more manipulative than most could even imagine.

Jef

Hey,

This thread went apeshit.

Cool.

If Mr Moore were truly a self serving opourtunist as people seem to believe...why did he never attack Clinton (or really even Bush the 1st)?

He's been making movies and TV since the 80's. I bet he could have done a great movie called "The Intern"--picture this:

A bent leg in suit pants fills the top of the frame; a cigar dangles down; from underneath the knee we see a big haired, chubby intern in a blue dress; she looks up, doe-eyed and says "Why Mr. President, are you trying to seduce me?"

I bet he would have made a fortune. I wonder why he didn't?

Could it be that he has the conviction of his beliefs?

With the US going crazy with frivolous, let alone actual, lawsuits how does Mr. Moore manage to pay all the punitive settlements against him for libel and defamation?

Could it be that there's never been any?

If the mainstream media (NBC and CNN at least) routinely portray him as an extremist nut ( they did as recently as last week while talking to Cindy Sheehan), how has maintained a career as a documentary filmmaker for 25 years?

Could it be that no one thought he was crazy till he went after the President guarded by the most skilled opinion manipulator ever hatched from a demon's eggs, Karl Rove?

They went and moved the debate, guys.

It's fucking genius. Read back over the passion spewed about this hilariously demure man.

This wasn't a debate--venom was spilled. They made Moore into a process story--it's incredible (also, a bit evil).

Have the haters here seen "Roger & Me" or "The Big One"; watched an episode of TV nation or "The Awful Truth"?

Bowling for Columbine may have seemed exploitive because he told truth to a decomposing old man (who had the nerve to imply that people of colour were responsible for the gun violence issue)...but where else?

Nobody thought he was crazy until his last film.

I wonder what happened?

The debate about Moore is a diversion.

Now we should be asking why we've been diverted.

Jef

P.S.-If that mother was exploited why did she attend the film’s premiere with Mr. Moore? Where’s the tell-all book?

P.P.S.- Does anyone know what the last big public thing Mr. Moore did? I do.

He forfeited a chance to win another Academy Award (I hear that helps you make money) in an attempt to get his most recent film on TV (with no payment to him I might add) before last November…you’re all right…he is crazy.

Okay,

Simply...

A lot of us don't see problems because we innately assume that our experience is not "dominant" but universal.

While I believe there is right and wrong this issue has actual consequences for thousands every day.

We need to change.

Jef

p.s. I'm sorry about your bus stop problem

P.S.

I forgot to add that evil fucker Karl Rove to the list in my last post

P.S.---

I might advocate the assasination of Karl Rove.

Unfortunately...

The political arm of the right has done a great job of marginalizing a well-intentioned and intelligent man.

Liberal media my ass.

Go back over his work and try and identify his "bias". It's always been toward people. Even when he gets as sarcastic as he does here his thesis is always about people in need.

Just because someone (right-wing media bias anyone?) says his thesis is a ruse doesn't make it so.

To this day no one has ever finitely impeached his facts. And they have tried.

His implications get extreme (but he's never advocated assassination as far as I know) and arguably out of hand...but I remember someone implying that Iraq was going nuclear.

Anyway...

Jef

Yeah,

I'd like to believe...

But strong bases and personality cults make every election close.

Elitist democrats and one-issue religious voters (freaks).

I'm a pragmatic socialist but I believe in both the existence of and the fallibility of both of these groups.

The only way this will stop is if a respected person with no (political) ambition stands up and speaks the truth.

Holding my breath,

Jef

Hey,

When will an important Democrat come out and loudly proclaim that this is the THIRD time that Bush's administration has been caught asleep at the switch costing THOUSANDS of American lives!!! When will he stop listening to the same people (Dick, Condy and Donald) who advised him on terrorism in early 01, Iraq in '02-'03 and disaster prep in '05...WTF?

I wish John Kerry was the same man he was when he tossed out his army medals in disgrace.

Apparently, the senate confiscates your balls!

Jef

Mama,

It's interesting that you bring up burning.

Every definition of that word starts with the idea of burning. Small sticks used as kindling, smokes, annoying wives...does anyone think it's a coincidence what the word means now?

The word is violent and hateful. It's about nothing less than lynching--if you doubt that consider how it's used to marginalize and destroy peers in the schoolyard...among children.

(Interestingly--I once heard a child replace the "N-word" with "Faggot" in the Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe rhyme)

Anyone who pretends this word is "OK" or evolved is simply ignorant.

I'm not suggesting some sort of facist ban on the word, but it does reveal a lot about those who throw it around.

On to a response...

Hey.

I'm always amazed when people who are the "majority" (in this case not gay [or jewish?]I suppose)react to having their unfair advantage pointed out to them.

There's always this sort of offended expression followed by the accusation that the person who brought it up is somehow uptight or radical.

Like people are trying to spoil the party.

It makes people scared.

The myth of the political correct revolution was born out of this.

It's interesting.

Jef

Agreed' date=' bald guy. There are some responses to these arguments that defy all reason. One of them is the "go find something important to think about" response. How arrogant!

This is a message boards with many things to talk about. If you've found yourself in a thread that you find unimportant, move on, but don't be so obnoxious as to tell other people their discussion and concerns are unimportant. Unless you're just The Coolest Person EVER. Because if you're The Coolest Person EVER, than go ahead, I guess we should take stock in what you deem to be worthy of our debate or not. Otherwise, there's always the option not to contribute and go talk about how some music sucks or how Jerry Garcia burned out in the mid-1980's, or something enlightening like that.

[/quote']

so its not ok for me to say a discussion regarding verbal offense is unimportant(which i didn't, i said there are more pressing matters) but you can go right ahead and belittle my opinion on the matter? its the exact same thing. and then the "coolest person ever" personal attack, as well as the reference to jerry's bad 80s playing(also me) all i did was voice my opinion like everyone else(negative or otherwise) and you respond with personal attacks. seems like you're the one who needs to think about the things he posts.

its people like you who make me antisocial.

About this...I was just suggesting that straight white people have extreme difficulty understanding the difference between their cultural dominance and their own personal value. As a result these issues seem moot and unimportant.

If you think I'm wigging out on a crazy left-wing rant...ask a woman, any woman, how many times that she has been frightened standing with an unknown man at a bus stop and compare that with your own experience.

I didn't belittle you but I will gladly, loudly and publicly state that you are wrong.

And it IS significant that you took this point personally. It’s usually the first way that we (us straight whitey’s) respond to (and diffuse) being told that we claim or have too much dominance—when we all know (or should know) that we do.

Jef

During this interview (one minute maybe) they were running footage of "looters." i counted 5 non black people to easily 100 black people...all the while paula and guest talked about looters looting. total CNN moment...

[color:purple]

Of course it will get better because they are sending in the national guard.

The world is fucked.

The national guard...I can't wait till some poor brazillian guy is gunned down in New Orleans.

I don't know what is worse; that that went out on the air or that the person who put it on the air probably doesn't know that it's disgusting.

Jef

Interesting side note...(?)

And remember:

"It has been suggested that the gender-specific term "manhole cover" is not politically correct, but the gender-neutral version "person-hole cover" does not seem to have caught on. Alternative suggestions include "inspection cover" and "access hatch". One proposed name is "Maintenance Hole" or "Maintenance Hatch", which doesn't require changing the acronym and hence many city maps."

This sort of thing never really happened.

An official movement to rename maitenance equipment?

Whose job would this be?

This is a sort-of cautionary tail that gets told to deflect the actions of well-intentioned activists.

A boogey-man for the powerful. (Not unlike the current gay conspiracy to bring down Christianity)

The give away is the non-specific attributation "it has been suggested..."

The powerful don't fight for equality they fight for the status quo. Anything else feels like failure...even if it's righteous.

Jef

P.S.--For more info on fear tactics and the myth of the politically correct revolution read Barry Glassner's book "The Culture of Fear"

Nice to be around, Jeff.

I was out finding things...

Jef

Hey.

I'm always amazed when people who are the "majority" (in this case not gay [or jewish?]I suppose)react to having their unfair advantage pointed out to them.

There's always this sort of offended exspression followed by the acusation that the person who brought it up is somehow uptight or radical.

Like people are trying to spoil the party.

It makes people scared.

The myth of the political correct revolution was born out of this.

It's interesting.

Jef

Me, I'm more than a little annoyed at the coverage of the looting. It's ludicrously self-righteous.

The only people that are left in New Orleans come from three groups.

1) The media. Fuck 'em. They're the ones that are filming the looting, wagging their fingers and then pleasently interviewing the looters. Plus, do you think they got permission to use all the car batteries they've been using to broadcast?

2) The stupid. A small group to be sure but they "loves their homes". I suspect a lot of these folks can't figure out why there cars won't work underwater (or with a missing car battery) so I doubt they're doing much looting. Most who could leave left...now that word "could" brings me to my next point...

3) The poor. Can you imagine spending your life feeling like everyone else has something you don't. Then being "ordered" out of your home with no real means to do it. On the night of the hurricane you're patted down by soldiers on the way into a hot stuffy non-ventilated stadium while all those that have the something that you never have had just left.

Then, the roof of the stadium leaks, hell comes to town in the form of a flood (made up of what is essentially sewage water) and you haven't heard from any official source in 3 days because there hasn't been power, cell service, or telephone lines. You're all alone, no food or dry clothes.

But there's a Wal-Mart.

What would you do?

I'm not naive enough to think that all the lootong is for essentials but if it feels like your life as you know it is over...what do you have to lose?

Stuff is insured. As long as the police and army keep peeople from hurting themselves and others we should shut up about the looting.

Hell I'm surprised that the police aren't helping people loot safely.

Jef

Hey.

There are two important things that are being left out of the conversation here.

The first is that while language does grow and evolve you can't ignore the cultural history of that evolution. If "gay" is changing to become synonymous with "bad" or "undesirable" that makes an incredible statement about how we truly feel about homosexuals. In addition, claiming that one "doesn't mean" homosexual when one calls a stupid thing "gay" is simply overlooking the very obvious (and some might argue cruel) comparison one is making.

The second issue is the concept of context. If I turn to my best friend, who is jewish, and privately make a "jew joke" it in no way means the same thing, or has the same effect, as making that joke in public or to someone who doesn't know that I don't think badly (or really even differently) of jewish people. My friend has that clear context to refract my comment through; that context alters its meaning. Regardless of intent or the good feelings I have in my heart for Jewish people, making such a joke publicly is cruel and, yes, opressive.

Many of us straight, white, males, have a warped sense of the context issue. Having never truely experienced the kind of cruelty we're talking about here we often don't understand the power of this kind of language. We tend to just see it as funny.

"Oh. I can't believe he said that!" and the like.

This is not to say that only us S/W/M's use this language this way...but let's put it this way...

I knew (and so did most of my friends) that I didn't want to be a "faggot" years before I had any idea what it meant.

Is there an answer??

I don't know. We could start by finding different words. Words that mean what we mean without hurting others.

Jef

P.s--

Bo Bice got a collective "What the Fuck...?" from the crowd...but that poser sure can sing.

Jef

Hey all!

Just got back from Tenn.

The Trey set was a blast!!!

I'm not sure how people who are crying, wishing and hoping for a "YEM" or a "Kung" breakout would feel...but anyone who likes Trey's playing, his vibe and attitude (the good one--not the other one) would have had a great night.

I think the band is coming together...interestingly they seemed WAY more confident on the covers than any Trey tune...except maybe "46 Days".

Cool,

Jef

Live music back at the Albion!

Excellent.

I'm in TO tonight but where can I get info about future shows?

Cool,

Jef

Hey,

When I checked I just sort of assumed that some insipid promoter decided to only release GA to the presale and sell reserved on May 13th.

But...

remebering back to Horde'98.

It would be a cool solution to the mass expanse of empty seats that ensued while Gov't Mule rocked the HMCS HAIDA out in the parking lot.

I wonder which...

does anyone have facts??

Jef

Hey dude.

Happy belated...

I was going to attempt wit but I'm a bit stumped by Lazlo's ass.

Hope all is well.

Cool,

Jef

Hey all.

I have to agree with Jaimoe on this one.

I've seen moe. three times at Bonnaroo and I was blown away each time...an incredible jamming rock band with good hooks and great tangents.

But...

If not for talking with Jaimoe and his friend that night I would have been dead asleep.

I even have the "instant live" CD to prove how bad the show was.

Jef

Hello Sunshine.

I dedicate my first post in this new forum to your birthday, late though I appear to be.

I hope it was wonderful.

Jeff

Example. Which statement offends you more:

A- "The Catholic church is an archaic organization that does not reflect current moral standards and should stop trying to brainwash us with their outdated doctrine, and priests like to touch little boys."

B- "Homosexuality is a psychological disorder that should be treated similarly to ADD or tourette's syndrome- with the use of prescription drugs."

I'm not offended by either.

One has a basis in fact and one is a tried and repeatedly failed attempt to stifle behaviour that is naturally found in many mammals throughout the animal kingdom.

It's not "OK" to slander anyone.

Satire, though, is based on fact.

AND...If you think the world is currently less critical of being gay than Catholic, try kissing a man full on the lips with your mouth open in public anywhere other than the "gaybourhood" and then reasses your opinion.

Jef

I am utterly perplexed as to why anyone cares about gay marriage.

TomF,

The basic premis is that marriage is a covenent before God, their God (who really doesn't abide butfu@king). Biblical christians and catholics (believe me there is a massive difference) also don't believe that man's law is seperate from God's law. They believe that it is subordinate. They seem to think that the concept of "marriage" belongs to them.

Sucks.

Really, I believe that so much of christianity's cultural dominance has been stripped away that christians have begun to percieve disagreement as an a attack. They will stop at no justification to assert their beliefs because more and more people are...well, not believing.

Cool,

Jef