d_rawk

Hey, happy ... erm ... yesterday, Mike!

Had teeth marks on my tongue from biting it so hard to not wish you a happy birthday yesterday in person, but wasn't sure if there were any posts about it yet and didn't want to inadvertantly give up the Prescott surprise.

Wish I coulda been there to buy you a drink, but I've got this slave-driver of a boss ... you know how it is

Thanks for all you do out here in the ether, and for being a damn fine human being to boot. You're still getting a drink on me when next we meet.

KarinAnnie - forget my previous post. Just re-read yours and realized that what you were saying and what I thought that you were saying, were two different things.

That'll teach me to cruise the board semi-conscious :crazy:

If the people hold the power, why does this generation of Americans need a strong (politically empowered) leader at all?

Granted, we're not a republic, but in this country we get along quite well with folks at the top who are weak on "leadership" but strong on pragmatism - with only a few exceptions once or twice in the span of the average lifetime.

Hey, AD - are you already a Mirah convert? If not, I think you'd really like her. I'd suggest 'finding' Advisory Committee (2001) as the place to jump in. Sort of "His Name is Alive"-ish, but with less mental illness, if that makes sense.

Rilo Kiley's "The Good That Won't Come Out" off The Execution of All Things (2002). Broke out some old mix CDs this afternoon, and that was on one. I also really like "Hail to Whatever You Found in the Sunlight that Surrounds You" off the same album, but the lyrics are kinda uninspiring on their own.

(Hail to those who have come from the sunlight that surrounds you

Pray for those who have gone from the sunlight that surrounds you

Hail to those who have come from the sunlight that surrounds you

Pray for those who have gone from the sunlight that surrounds you

Pretend all the good things are for you

Hail to those who have come from the sunlight that surrounds you

Hail to whatever you've found in the sunlight that surrounds you

Pretend all the good things are for you, pretend all the good things are for me

too

And the weather changes not halfway between your house and mine

Pretend all the good things are for you, pretend all the good things are for me

too

And the weather changes not halfway between your house and mine

And all of the good things are for me, and all of the good things are for you

too

And the weather changes not halfway between your house and mine)

Let's get together and talk about the modern age.

All of our friends were gathered there with their pets

just talking shit about how we're all so upset about the disappearing ground.

As we watch it melt....

It's all of the good that won't come out of us

and how eventually our hands will just turn to dust,

if we keep shaking them.

Standing here on this frozen lake.

I do this thing where I think I'm real sick

but I won't go to the doctor to find out about it

Cause they make you stay real still in a real small space

As they chart up your insides and put them on display.

They'd see all of it, all of me, all of it.

All the good that won't come out of me

and all the stupid lies I hide behind.

It's such a big mistake

lying here in your warm embrace.

Oh, you're almost home.

I've been waiting for you to come in.

Dancing around in your old suits going crazy in your room again.

I think I'll go out and embarrass myself by getting drunk and falling down in

the street.

(You say I choose sadness

that it never once has chosen me.

Maybe you're right...)

Let's talk about all of our friends who lost the war

And all of the novels that have yet to be written about them.

It's all the good that won't come out of them

and all the stupid lies they hide behind.

It's such a big mistake

Standing here on this frozen lake.

It's all of the good that won't come out of me

And how eventually my mouth will just turn to dust

If I don't tell you quick.

Standing here on this frozen lake.

I meant to make it last week, but failed. Attempt #2 tonight. ('in')

my back looks much sexier on meggo's computer than on my own. I'll have to adjust my constrast settings.

How's that for off topic?

The City of Ottawa has a listing, as part of it's Take it Back initiative, of places accepting plastic grocery bags.

Pretty close to 'in' on this one.

The cool thing is that nobody has to resort to turning off avatars, and Bouche didn't need to resort to the (sure to be controversial when it happens) action of forcefully removing it. ge-off did it willingly. This is a good bunch of people on this board.

Thanks man.

hurt from the incessant churning.

this thread makes my stomach hurt.

hahaha :laugh:

Yeah, what are you boys on about?

1. I am the sole unbaptized child of my family, though my immediate family is decidedly not religious. I have vague memories of going to church on holidays so that my mother could feel that she had appeased her kin. I'm pretty sure I was put in Sunday school, too, but it is blurry. From what I can piece together, there were great (in the sense of large, rather than the sense of positive) religious debates with some deep rifts only a couple generations removed from myself, and that curious couple who spawned me seem to have largely walked away from all of it. I have the Quakers on one side (who, ballsy progressives that they are, I have enormous respect for and identify with strongly), Nazarenes on the other (biting my tongue), and this strange Catholic thread weaving itself across both planes.

2. Not sure about this one. Again, blurry. I think that there was little to no indoctrination, and I think that matters of ethics, of which I'm strongly concerned, are not things that have really preoccupied or interested my "flesh and blood". The fact that we often arrive at the same conclusions through careful reasoning as do others through matters of faith actually leads me to respect those matters of faith more deeply than I might otherwise.

3. Velvet said it well, and much more succinctly than I would have. I found both vulgarity and beauty in those books -- I appreciated one as much as the other. Literally? No. I'd say no.

I'm restricting myself to one general comment: We don't objectify people by acknowledging their physical features, but by refusing to acknowledge anything but. And we risk falling into that trap when we disregard the potential value of someone's opinion, intelligence, capacity for compassion, or other traits because they have participated in a type of superficial pageantry of debatable merit.

We absolutely need to be on guard against exploitation, sexual or otherwise (of which women are the most frequent, but not exclusive victims). And though I find beauty pageants excessively tacky and painfully dull, I don't see, broadly speaking, anything wrong with recognizing and even celebrating physical beauty any more than there is something wrong with recognizing and celebrating, say, intelligence or athleticism. A beautiful face, a gorgeous sunset, the cuteness of a kitten, autumn leaves (these examples sound flakey but I use them because by being common, even cliche, they are immediately familiar and widely uncontested) - they are all equally superficial. They are also all equally miraculous and capable of giving us pleasure through as simple an activity as just witnessing. Simple, basic physical beauty has been the inspiration for a lot of remarkable things. Somebody mentioned Shakespeare.

Problems of self-esteem and unattainable expections resulting in terrible phenomena like eating disorders (of which, again, females are overwhelmingly the most common, but not exclusive, victims) are serious ones - but I'm reluctant to think that the solution lies in casting a shadow over what is appealing to the eye rather than in modifying our dialogue concerning it. While our culture is teeming with examples of injustices resulting from the oversexualized representation of women, we needn't look far for examples in other cultures (or in more puritanical times in our own history) of terrible injustices caused in an effort to desexualize women or hide their beauty from collective eyes. The pendulum swings from extreme to extreme, but the poles of those extremes inch ever closer to the tempered center as it settles. That is - it's a damn bumpy ride, but at least we're getting somewhere and have a basic sense of our destination.

Ok, self-restraint has never been one of my strong points. Actually, I'm not so sure I even know what my point is. But I've successfully killed some time at work, so mission accomplished, thanks for indulging me, and feel free to take me to task.

Thanks for the link! I'll check that out for sure.

As far as the Wilde material goes, the only good source that I'm aware of is a book published as "Irish Peacock & Scarlet Marquess" by Fourth Estate (hardcover 2003, paperback 2004). It was actually put together by Wilde's grandson, Merlin Holland, when the complete trial manuscript became available at the British Library in 2000. It includes the verbatim account of the committal hearing, visual copies of all items brought forward as evidence, reproductions from the newspapers of the time, an excellent notes section to explain comments or names or details whose relevance or meaning might not be immediately evident, as well as the libel trial in its entirety. Prior to this publication, all previous accounts have been inconsistant reconstructions using newspapers, letters, and other such material as the source because the British had, until that time, declared the details to be 'unfit for publication'.

Curiously, much of the material pertaining to the subsequent two cases (in which Wilde is the defendant) is missing or destroyed. This probably has something to do with the fact that some very influential and powerful people (as well as some very influential and powerful people's sons) were in various ways implicated.

No I hadn't - I definately will, though. It'd be interesting to see how Zappa handles himself in the courtroom.

As far as the Wilde trial, the two things that struck me most were how clever the man was in conversation, even when caught totally off guard with a question during cross-examination. Many of his replies are witty enough to be lines in one of his plays, and at several moments the proceedings are interrupted because of raucous laughter. The other is the manner in which he allows his arrogance to put himself into a position that inevitably leads to additional trials and ultimately, his sentencing to several years hard labour for the crime of indecent sexual activity.

While ostensibly a libel trial, his work (particularly Dorian Gray) is repeatedly trotted out to attack his character in order to make the case that the libel was justified. The moments in which he is defending the importance of allowing seemingly "immoral" or "profane" elements in works of art are excellent, and he wins the argument handily. If I was at home I'd dig up a few lines.

I've had a pretty longstanding crush on Katie Holmes.

God damn Tom Cruise. God damn Tom Cruise to hell.

:blush:

*phew* Gotta say, I'm relieved

I read your first post in response to mine and was totally at a loss as to what you were getting at. It's clear, now.

I'm intrigued by your suggestion of a (self-perpetuating?) class to language relationship in these matters, and would really like to see you develop those thoughts further (or to point me in the direction of someone who has already done so) if you don't mind.

stratified language that allows people with power to suppress some people who use it in "inappropriate" ways, while referring to the same content

Yes! Absolutely - to my mind, the most offensive quote was "Unfortunately, one inappropriate phrase sung by one performer was initially missed and made it into the East Coast network feed.". It is a pretty heavy charge to suggest that a phrase, especially - but perhaps not exclusively - when situated within the context of an artistic work, is "inappropriate" in any manner whatsoever. Justifying such a statement, as far as I can see, would involve taking the dialogue all the way down to fundamental notions of morality in art. And that is an argument that the self-professed moralists - most often operating on behalf of established power - inevitably lose, even if the artists end up incarcerated in the process. (Wilde comes to mind, if only because I've been reading the transcripts of his trials)

Dunno. I'd say "ear to the ground" except I always wanna punch people who say things like that.

I'm sure that if Velvet hadn't mentioned anything about "interview" there would have been a good discussion. I doubt that Keller has heard of jambands.ca, wasn't sure who or what he was dealing with, or where, exactly, his comments were going to be published if he was too forthcoming. This is exactly why he would have a publicist, and I don't blame him for wanting to make use of that filter/channel/expenditure when confronted with a journalist or interviewer from some unknown medium.

Haha! We'll see!

Hmmm. You're suggesting that while the language divide might derive from the reality of past class distinctions, contemporary (in the sense of being extensions of previous) class distinctions are in fact maintained by virtue of same language divide? That is - that the result later becomes the very source of said result, or at least the source of its own perpetuation? (class divide begets language divide -> language divide begets class divide)

Or did I just misunderstand this: "A thousand years later and we still have these class conflicts going on, as an excuse, near as I figure, for actually being able to talk frankly about it all."? (Be patient - I'm a bit slow, sometimes).

[edit to add:] this sounds arguey and insincere, when, in fact, the spirit in which it was written was the opposite of both

they're no Trachtenberg Family.

Hilarious.

I was surprised that Del took to the Stars as well - not in a "Del doesn't like anything, wink-wink, nudge-nudge" kinda way, but in a "this may be a little too on the sappy, electro-pop-y side of things for his tastes" kinda way.

Del is a constant source of surprise. Long live Del! [think carefully before hitting "Add Post", C-Towns]

BTW - 170 tracks?? Yoinks.

Also: nudge is a really funny word.