Can you make a living playing music in TO?

[PhishyK]

hi all,

Thanks for your replies to my previous message. My question today is simple. I'm a musician (electric bass, vocals and djun-djuns) who is moving to Toronto in August. I'm tired of web design and looking to be a full-time musician. I have pro skills, experience, equipment and attitude.

The question:

Is it possible to make a living as a musician in Toronto, or will I have to flip burgers or wrap burritos to pay my rent?

Thanks all!

special K

[bradm]

First off, it you're not full-time now, and if you're new to Toronto, the old rule applies: don't quit your day job (or get a day job, then don't quit it).

If you want to make it as a full-time professional musician, I think you're going to have to be willing to do whatever it takes: gigging (with your own band, and as a for-hire backing musician), sessions (even commercials), weddings, parties, anything. To get good (re: paid reguarly) at this needs things like reliability (i.e, showing up, and on time, with appropriate behaviour and dress), flexibility (esp. in style), ability to read sheet music, etc.

If you're not willing to take musical jobs you may not like, you'd be better off getting a day job you like instead and only doing the musical jobs you like.

Being new to Toronto, the big problem you're going to have going full-time is contacts: no club act plays 5 nights a week, and to get other gigs, you need to find out who to talk to.

I don't know if there's a musicians' union in Toronto, but that might be a good place to start.

(The above may sound discouraging; it's not intended as such. I wish you the best of luck.)

Aloha,

Brad

[bradm]

Another way to think about it is to do the math:

1. How much money per year do you need to live comfortably? (Remember to take things like income taxes, medical expenses [remember, as a full-time musician, you'll be self-employed, and so won't have any company-supplied benefits], etc., into account; add more if you want to do things like build up an investment/retirement portfolio.)

2. How much does a gig/session pay?

3. Divide #1 by #2, that's how many gigs a year you'll need.

4. Divide #3 by 52, that's how many gigs a week you'll need. (Vary the amounts if you want to include things like royalties.)

For example, if you need $25,000/year to live on (which is a modest pre-tax income), you'll need to make about $500/week. If you're in a five-piece band, that means you'll need to do five gigs a week, every week.

(Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't try, just that you should be coldly realistic and not irrationally overoptimisic.)

Aloah,

Brad

[PhishyK]

hey man, do you live in the GTA?

I am wondering, is there lots of work available there? Have you worked in the city?

I don't mind working a day job. And honestly, I can survive on less than 25k.

I have been working full time for 5 years in the computer industry, making 35k a year, and while I have extra money, I am not happy. I want to be a happy dude, American Beauty style!

Any other Toronto musicians out there?

[bradm]

No, I was born in Toronto (Scarborough, actually), but got out of the city in '86 or so (to school in Kingston until '91, then to Ottawa where I am now). (And if I lived in T.O. I'd definitely be calling you to see about jamming; I'm looking to get into a gigging band here in Ottawa.)

I was figuring k$25/year using a 33% income tax bracket (YMMV), which comes to about k$17; divide by 12 gives under $1500/month. Figure $500-$750/month rent, that leaves at most $750/month for food, drink, clothes, transport, gear, strings, CDs, and party supplies. Since I haven't lived in T.O. for a while, I'm not sure about the cost of living, so, yeah, k$25/year might do you just fine; I was using it as a reasonable round number.

Also, I have no experience with the business side of music, especially in Toronto (e.g., how easy it is to get gigs, or what they pay). I was figuring that, based on the cliche of the actor/musician having to work as a waiter/waitress until "the big break", that rolling into a city as a newbie and expecting to become a pro musician might not match with the reality.

To me, the goal is not so much to be a professional musician but to be a successful musician, with success = happiness. I was afraid that if you tried to go whole-hog and it didn't work, that you'd be turned off music; I'd rather have a happy part-time musician than an unhappy struggling full-time one.

One thing might be to get into other areas of music; you've worked in the computer industry, so try combining the two (e.g., working on music websites, or getting training and a job in recording).

Good luck, man. If you find out anything, pass it on/back to us here at the Sanctuary.

Aloha,

Brad

[arcane]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bradm:

To me, the goal is not so much to be a professional musician but to be a

successful

musician, with success = happiness. I was afraid that if you tried to go whole-hog and it didn't work, that you'd be turned off music; I'd rather have a happy part-time musician than an unhappy struggling full-time one.

---

On that note, yesterday's UserFriendly cartoon: clicky for Hilary (Hilary Rosen is the President and CEO of the RIAA) ...

... and today's cartoon: clicky for Ozzy.

[Jaimoe]

Hey Phishy, you shouldn't have any problem finding a computer job in Toronto. Toronto along with Ottawa are the real computer hot-spots in Canada. Good luck in finding steady gigs.

[Ms.Huxtable]

Hey Special K,

I wish you all the best. I think you have your priorities where they should be. So many people loose sight of the important things in life. They do not come with money, but with freedom and happiness. You do what you need to do to be happy. That's a great example for us all.

Peace and best wishes,

Ms. Huxie

[PhishyK]

hey, thanks Ms. Huxtable.

You know what's funny, Dr. Huxtable's bassist wanted ad was like the first thing I ever found when searching for musical opportunities in Ontario.

The thing is with me is that I've just struggled for so long here in Vic. I had a great jam band last year but just couldn't do it with my full-time work. Now it is time to follow my dreams!

Too bad my band never made it national. We were sweet. Our name was Chameleon. We used to do Down with Disease perfectly!

The time eventually comes for all things to move on, I guess.

Does Dr Hux. play in TO?

rock and roll

special [color:"red"]K

[Ms.Huxtable]

K man - Dr. Huxtable hasn't played in Toronto yet. Come check us out in Ottawa or sometime soon in Kingston (half way between Ottawa and Toronto) We'll keep you posted on show dates.

[PhishyK]

Cool, my gay fighter-pilot stepbrother lives in Kingston!

My plan is to get to TO around early Sept, couch-surf for a month and find a place for Oct. 1st. So I will be staying in Oakville for a week, Kingston for a week, and downtown for a while too.

Phew, I bet house hunting in downtown TO sucks butt.

Rock and roll 4ever Ms Huxtable. You keep Willis and Arnold in order now, y'hear!

[PhishyK]

hey guys,

Thanks for all your replies. There was some really good reality checks in there. I definitely know now that I can't make a living just gigging, unless I get a really really good gig.

Hopefully I can find something along the lines of teaching bass or working at a music store.

All I know is, I don't want to go back into the computer industry. I've had too much phosphorous beamed into my brain already! Ugh. Almost 5 years here at Sage Internet Solutions and I get a headache at least 3 times a week. It is time for a break!

That's why I said I wanted happiness, American Beauty style. The dude in that movie quits his high paying stressful job to work in a burger joint and be happy. It's a great one.

Speaking of movies, go see Minority Report. It's effing trippy. It's really good. Go see it!

thanks again y'all

[color:"red"]special K