Good Set Bad Set (Bonnaroo)

[kung]

Oh great Peacemaker why have I forsaken you. Lighten up beats seriously. We all know that my hatred of the Cheese (which is itself ironic because they and they're fanbase seem so utterly incapable of hate but more in a brainwashed Brian Jones Massacre kind of way- pass the koolaid yum!) runs deep so take it or leave it. There were very few setlists up for Bonnaroo and Wilco and Cheese were two of them seeing as this dialogue had come up in light of Lollapalooza I put it out there as a lark. Clearly from the superlatives being used to describe Wilco I am not alone. But just so we're absolutely fucking clear it is an embarassment that the String Cheese Incident are closing Lollapalooza rather than say the Flaming Lips or Wilco. Perhaps the members of the cheese are so deluded as to think they have earned this slot but I suspect not. If I was a musician I would DIE to write ONE SONG as good as Jeff Tweedy or Wayne Coyne. ONE FUCKING SONG. Not only will Kyle or Kang or Billy NEVER write a song that good they must somewhere not so deep down know this. Can you imagine the backstage area?

Billy: 'Yo Jeff I loooove the new album and whoa did I ever love that documentary (I Am Trying To Break Your Heart)'

Jeff: 'Ugh thanks dude'

Billy:'No really I love that tune Jesus Etc., and that collaboration with Billy Bragg (Mermaid Ave.) especially California Stars.'

Jeff: 'Yeah that was fun.'

Billy: 'So have you seen our set?'

Jeff: 'Uh no to be honest we just kind of split to the hotel after our gig but I've heard you guys are ughhh good'

Billy: 'Whoa thanks that means a lot coming from you'

Jeff: 'Well see you in Detroit then'

So the reason I am so forceful about my view is that there is a great cosmic injustice being perpetrated when people are forced to believe that in some way SCI is superior to any of these worthy and memorable bands that history will remember for years to come. Not to mention in these parts there aren't exactly a lot of people willing to look honestly at their taste in the cheese and say 'hey you know what this is kind of embarassing when you think about it- what the fuck are these songs about anyways?'

[Esau]

Then how do you explain this thread?

Still waiting on a typically thoughtful, mature answer to my question. Sorry to be such a downer. ::

Ahhh.I find it some funny,dragging drama over to another (now drama-zied) thread.Still pining on that one eh? Wow.

Anyway,for those who are tired,bored,bothered or sick of Kung's posts/threads,

Here's a tip,if ya don't like Kung's threads or posts,then don't acknowledge them.Why reply to them,knowing it will only fuel more,especially when its just his opinion,like everyone elses,except it doesn't jive with everyone elses opinion,so he should be reamed out/lectured etc and told not to express his distain for a band.If ya don't like it ignore it.Personally,I love the posts,makes me laugh reading how upset folks get over a single persons comments about a band.Makes me wonder why folks even listen to some bands...is it be part of the group (peer pressure or to "fit" in) or for their own personal enjoyment (In which xase whats it matter what ANYONE has to say about a band,good or bad)?

I lost my flare for Phishhead bashing ever since folks started ignoring it or not gettin visablly upset,hard to bother folks (is why I did it too) when they don't show it gets to them.....at least on a public messege board.

Awwww well,back to our regular scheduled lectures and drama...

[SaggyBalls]

now now...i'm just trying to get Kung to use his intelligence in a way that it's not wasted.

When the first post had been made i had no clue that there was an issue with SCI closing out Lollapalooza. Nor did I even remember that.

I guess somethng can be said about saving some magic for later but the gist of what Kung had been hinting at was wasted on me.

I read the posts Kung writes and I have a feeling that there should be no reason for me to shake my head. Some of jared's 'who's got my heady wife' posts got their point across far better than Kung just did using his $5 words.

I'm obviously not the smartest guy around, and I'm not trying to take any sort of moral high ground but when a brain that powerful wastes its energy that much I've really gotta try SOME sort of encouragement whether it's positive or negative...unfortunately, and I realized this as I read my post again, I should've been a bit mroe positive.

Sometimes if you can't say anything nice you shouldn't say anything at all but to counter that point I've got to say there are so many nice things that could be said about Luke. How genuine he is, how much he cares about thought and music, how incredibly unique and bright he is. I just think that Kung has the potential to do a whole lot more good than he's doing...quite possibly one of the finest writers i've read. no joke.

[Esau]

I'm just stirring the pot CB...you know.

[NewRider]

SCI are headlining Lineupoflosers because they are the bigger drawing act. Just because an artist writes better songs or plays a meaner axe doesn't mean they get to headline... just look at MMW opening for 311!!!

[SaggyBalls]

marco...you're not a downer. you're challenging. there's a big difference. that's all I'm trying to be. I couldn't care less about how a band is disliked by someone but when such a mind is just missing the mark i've gotta make at least a bit of a stink.

and to quote...

Ok, Gumby - then spell it out for us. Tell all of us why it's ok to sort women out by their breast size and have them race topless around a track for money. Be sure to explain why I'm a downer for expressing my negative reaction to it too. It's an important point apparently - you raised it, so go ahead, I can't wait.

Go on.

that was not a question. that was an order. and to be honest, if it were the same but with women betting on men it'd be funny and politically correct. on a whole we've gotta lighten up about sports when gambling and titties are involved.

[NewRider]

marco...you're not a downer. you're challenging. there's a big difference. that's all I'm trying to be. I couldn't care less about how a band is disliked by someone but when such a mind is just missing the mark i've gotta make at least a bit of a stink.

and to quote...

Ok, Gumby - then spell it out for us. Tell all of us why it's ok to sort women out by their breast size and have them race topless around a track for money. Be sure to explain why I'm a downer for expressing my negative reaction to it too. It's an important point apparently - you raised it, so go ahead, I can't wait.

Go on.

that was not a question. that was an order. and to be honest, if it were the same but with women betting on men it'd be funny and politically correct. on a whole we've gotta lighten up about sports when gambling and titties are involved.

my girlfriend would smack the shit outta me for saying this!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAA...

[kung]

This thread sort of went weird like usual. Of course I was stirring the pot, it was also a bit of a pun because I think both sets occured on the 'which' stage or the 'what'. Ahhhhh get it. But of course there was something implied and here's the dead horse I see myself beating. What this scene doesn't get is why the rest of the music loving world deplores what they revolve their lives around. I mean a Cheesehead can love Wilco too but a Wilco fan can't really go for the Cheese if you know what I mean at least in principle. Partly it's because if you identify with an alt-country subculture then the idea of writhing around in mud with a bunch of wooks is anthema to you. It also has to do with whether you identify with the drug subculture that overlaps with the jam culture that is at the core of it too. I think I'm right on some level about how respect from your musician peers is an esteemed thing and not something bestowed lightly. History will remember certain bands and forget others it's up to you to decide which. This is all to say that it matters that the music you identify as 'historic' plays into your self identity and anything outside of that circle of righteousness is at very least foreign to you and must be. We define ourselves by what we identify with and what we don't identify with. So many styles of music folk, rock, hip hop are in a lot of ways about not identifying with the dominant culture. The dominant culture oddly enough in our scene is bands like The Dead, Phish and increasingly SCI as well as their apparatchiks. Now here's the rub- what seems to us like wildly inventive, creative, striving, thriving music seems to most like so much masturbation. Now here's the real rub- if folk music is the music of The Folk then the Cheese are in many ways the current ambassadors even the inheritors of the folk tradition. They resemble though something more like the Kingston Trio, the watered down petered out styling of a commercial phenomena. But if folk music means a music based on authenticity, based on the appalachian values of people whose land was sold out from underneath them to shylocks and hustlers, more importantly a music of revolt and protest against the injustices of the world fraught as it is with peril and the prospect of greatness then truly Wilco are the new ambassadors of folk. The fact that they use all manner of studio trickery and electronic wizardry should matter as much as Dylan's electric guitar- particularly if that music is a music of self-mythologizing of making the old new- the music of creative destruction.

[SaggyBalls]

thank you so much!

I don't think it could be put better...it's true. although some hippies are clean, most aren't after a day or 2 at a festival. (if you're not going to use deodorant shower every day and eat healthy people...patchouli doesn't count)

and so many folks get so whacked out on drugs...

...and we're lucky if a jam isn't too meandering most of the time.

does that mean that SCI is less important to those that love it? nope. does that mean that the majority of people let certain unimportant things affect the enjoyment of their music? yup. and as we can generally agree, the average humdrum joe public has too many neurotic hang ups and is intolerant and misunderstand creative energies in the way we see things.

this in no way makes sick jams less cool, just misunderstood.

if you're a hardcore cheesehead and want the average dorky folkie to get into your thing remember to shower and not act like a flaky hippy...some of the only things you can do to get those ever so dorky wilco fans to understand what it's all about - i don't think there's anything you can do to get them to love everybody...or call you brother or talk to a 'headdy mama' about how much they feel kung's solo...

but if you can squirt some liquid into their beer they'll think it's pretty frickin cool. (kidding although very true...but why waste doses)

I think both bands are totally valid for the record...I just have had a lot more feeling for Wilco's music...especially the Mermaid Avenue sessions.

california stars is one of my favourite songs.

[MarcO]

I thought Kung may get a kick out of this paraphrased story as recounted by Tom Marshall in a recent edition of Relix:

I guess when Phish played their 3-nights at the Fuji Rock Festival in Japan in 1999, there was a common area for the bands with a board where they could leave messages. Marshall said a lot of other bands were leaving nasty notes, talking with each other about how bad Phish sucked. Trey and the band thought this to be just hilarious.

So, it is all relative. I'd love to see those notes! Tom took photos..... ::

[NewRider]

Del McCoury Band

2004-06-12

This Tent

Bonnaroo

Manchester, TN.

Del McCoury Band - 06/12/04

[kung]

Not to actually rape the dead horse I've just beaten but in the context of Mermaid Ave. can you actually imagine the family of Woody Guthrie entrusting the String Cheese Incident with his lyrics trusting that they'd do right by it. Now that truly is a laughable thought.