paisley Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Liberals are right of center? sort of I guess, but the PC's have been against every recent larger development - relaxing pot laws, same sex unions, staying out of the iraq war, generally siding with the world before siding with america... I see these things as generally left of center I disagree that the states would be the same place with Gore as president, maybe similar, I don't know what it would be... all I know is I wouldn't be sick of hearing stupid macho crap like "lets roll" "your with us or your against us" and now being sickened yet more by watching Bush go to the countries who were obviously "against us" to beg money to fix his mess... in the wake of 30,000 civilian deaths... I agree that a vote in Canada should be based on strong principals, if I see a candidate who strikes me as a strong character, idealistic and sympathetic of the people he represents, they will have my vote... if I see three politicians all looking pretty much the same I'll vote for whoever keeps the PC's out... their main platform in Ontario is ending teacher stikes for god's sake... what about the poor, what about small business, what about making post secondary education world class and making it accessible to all... in my mind PC = evil (free trade, welfare, education, healthcare cuts, pension cuts, more for the rich, less for the poor... nightmares) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 The Federal Liberals being right-of-centre is a tough case to make, on certain fiscal policy, obviously, but on the whole....I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I think that you have to separate Federal and Provincial politics. You'll notice that Dalton uses a Maroon instead of the traditional bright red, trying to separate himself from the Federal liberals. As far as pot laws, it ain't legal yet, and the US has a big say in it. The feds are siding with the US on the upcoming WTO round in Mexico, mostly regarding agricultural provisions, same-sex, no one is really against politically, the Charter is the Charter. We did stay out of the Iraq war, but we're considering becoming part of the US nuclear shield. Again though, all these issues are federal jurisdiction. I don't mind Chretien, or most welfare liberals, but soon to be top dog Martin, is a business liberal and neo-conservative in my opinion, and you might as well have the PCs there. (in fact I'd rather have the Tories, then business Liberals). Provincially the liberals platform is not left leaning as far as I can tell. Please let me know if I'm wrong, just nothing comes to mind. Not taking away teachers right to strike isn't really a left thing, its just complacency. And as far as making post-secondary education accessible, only the NDP has stated they would re-regulate and cut tuition, and they've backed it up with a published economic plan. quote:Originally posted by paisley: Liberals are right of center? sort of I guess, but the PC's have been against every recent larger development - relaxing pot laws, same sex unions, staying out of the iraq war, generally siding with the world before siding with america... I see these things as generally left of center I disagree that the states would be the same place with Gore as president, maybe similar, I don't know what it would be... all I know is I wouldn't be sick of hearing stupid macho crap like "lets roll" "your with us or your against us" and now being sickened yet more by watching Bush go to the countries who were obviously "against us" to beg money to fix his mess... in the wake of 30,000 civilian deaths... I agree that a vote in Canada should be based on strong principals, if I see a candidate who strikes me as a strong character, idealistic and sympathetic of the people he represents, they will have my vote... if I see three politicians all looking pretty much the same I'll vote for whoever keeps the PC's out... their main platform in Ontario is ending teacher stikes for god's sake... what about the poor, what about small business, what about making post secondary education world class and making it accessible to all... in my mind PC = evil (free trade, welfare, education, healthcare cuts, pension cuts, more for the rich, less for the poor... nightmares) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Dr. Huxtable: The Federal Liberals being right-of-centre is a tough case to make, on certain fiscal policy, obviously, but on the whole....I don't think so. Just for argument's sake, couldn't you say that all government in this day and age comes down to fiscal policy? I don't put Chretien down as right, but Martin for sure and from my viewpoint he's where the party is headed (if its not already there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 If Martin is a liberal who's furthest right, who's a PC who's furthest left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I agree that federally Martin isn't likely to flip a finger up at the states anytime soon(where are the french Canadians?) and Dalton isn't saying much besides he doesn't plan to use a mud-slinging approach to campaigning... Dalton seems kind of weak platform-wise but I do like the level headed approach they're taking... I like what I've been hearing from the NDP and would like to see them get into office... unfortunately, in the steel-town here, most folks look at the NDP as the welfare state / tree hugging party... therefore, I'm worried they won't be able to pull it off... morally they should get my vote, but I definately don't want to see Eves running the show as a wet noodle bending this way and that trying to do something or other then changing his mind half way through for another 4 years... the guy is a bit of a mess as a leader good points there MoMack I'm a little blah blah blah as I just dragged my ass outta bed after the Blue Quarter celebrations last night coffee!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 ...you know I couldn't let that one go MoMack... "soon to be top dog Martin, is a business liberal and neo-conservative in my opinion, and you might as well have the PCs there. (in fact I'd rather have the Tories, then business Liberals)." It's pretty easy to pigeon-hole Martin because of his business past and years in the Finance portfolio, but consider a few things.... The huge influence of his father's life. Paul cherishes his late fathers legacy as one of the creators of Canada's post-war social policy, I can assure you, he has no intention of dismantling it, ie. think Conservative governments and privatization, there's your CEO style governing. When in opposition he was actually the Liberal Environment critic, enough said. Check the record. As chair of the G20, he brought debt-forgiveness for 3rd world and developing countries to the international table with a lot of success. Not exactly high on the neo-con agenda. Is currently serving on a UN commission promoting local entrepreneurship in developing countries. Supports same-sex marriage. I could go on.....but one thing is can assure you as FACT: Martin is NOT the "Liberal who's furthest right" I just think it's a little too easy to categorize him based on selective (or perhaps most publicized) elements of his past....You SCARE me when you say you'd consider the Mulroney/Eves Tories a better alternative, and to me that statement begs for a more complete picture of this guy.... (sure I'm biased, but consider me a spy on the inside I have no agenda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 that and Dr. Hux and Martin(in a dready wig) are goin on Ratdog tour thanks for the enlightenment Hux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 My apologies for not explaining myself further... When I say Tories I mean Diefenbaker, even Joe, Orchard maybe. I don't mean Mulroney or Harris/Eves. In fact I wouldn't call Harris' party the Progressive Conservative Party. They are the quite distinct "PC party" and thats how they publicize themselves. What I meant is I think Tories have their hearts in the right place, basic Tory ideology of the privileged taking care of the less fortunate. I just don't agree with their way of doing it. I in no way support the neo-conservative, religous right etc. etc. (which likely constitutes the Alliance faction of the right wing federally today..) quote: Originally posted by Dr. Huxtable: ...you know I couldn't let that one go MoMack... "soon to be top dog Martin, is a business liberal and neo-conservative in my opinion, and you might as well have the PCs there. (in fact I'd rather have the Tories, then business Liberals)." It's pretty easy to pigeon-hole Martin because of his business past and years in the Finance portfolio, but consider a few things.... The huge influence of his father's life. Paul cherishes his late fathers legacy as one of the creators of Canada's post-war social policy, I can assure you, he has no intention of dismantling it, ie. think Conservative governments and privatization, there's your CEO style governing. When in opposition he was actually the Liberal Environment critic, enough said. Check the record. As chair of the G20, he brought debt-forgiveness for 3rd world and developing countries to the international table with a lot of success. Not exactly high on the neo-con agenda. Is currently serving on a UN commission promoting local entrepreneurship in developing countries. Supports same-sex marriage. I could go on.....but one thing is can assure you as FACT: Martin is NOT the "Liberal who's furthest right" I just think it's a little too easy to categorize him based on selective (or perhaps most publicized) elements of his past....You SCARE me when you say you'd consider the Mulroney/Eves Tories a better alternative, and to me that statement begs for a more complete picture of this guy.... (sure I'm biased, but consider me a spy on the inside I have no agenda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 You're probably right about everything (I wouldn't know), the only one I'm not sure on is the one below. The only reason I say this is because Canada's contribution to developing nations has dropped from 6th to 16th among developing nations (as a precentage of GDP I believe) since the Chretien/Martin gov't was elected. quote: Originally posted by Dr. Huxtable: ...you know I couldn't let that one go MoMack... As chair of the G20, he brought debt-forgiveness for 3rd world and developing countries to the international table with a lot of success. Not exactly high on the neo-con agenda. (sure I'm biased, but consider me a spy on the inside I have no agenda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 ahhh...... By the way, Mulroney is still very much pulling the strings of the federal PC Party to this day... EDIT to my Martin-gush post, he also served as an advisor to Amnesty International prior to being elected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 You're right on that figure, but debt forgivenees isn't a gov't expenditure, ie. it's something owed to us, not something we spend on, so it is a little different....oh, and don't say Chretien/Martin governement, you sound like Stephen Harper dude!!! Martin favours targeted international aid Leadership candidate elaborates on a new approach to developing regional economies and increasing women’s participation in politics ST-HYACINTHE – June 14, 2003 – Canada must increase its international aid and target it to better meet certain countries’ specific needs, Paul Martin told a room full of Quebec Liberals at the leadership debate today. A new international aid policy must reflect Canadians’ strong social values and have a considerable impact in lives of those in developing nations, said Martin. ”If there is an area where we can either choose the status quo or change, this is the one”, he said. Martin indicated that, given Canada’s international aid budget, the number of countries that receive financial aid from Canada is too high and the aid they receive is negligible. He called for a better use of funds, which would focus on a few countries rather than giving many countries a small contribution “Of course, we need to continue to increase contributions . But we have to recognize the flaws. We have a tendency to sprinkle our contributions. There are hundreds of countries who are recipients. Everyone talks about wanting to reduce the number of countries in order to increase the amount of money given,” said Martin. A new international aid policy should also focus on health care, education and governance institutions, said Martin. etc..etc... HEY, wasn't this supposed to be about Prov. politics....somebody stop me already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSeasJim Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 We haven't had any pro PC comments yet (hahaha). I wonder what "Bobby" has to say about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 ...atta boy Jimbo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSeasJim Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Remember, Canada was founded on Education and Health Care (LaFontaine & Baldwin (i think)), but now they are provincial reponisibilities. The Feds have to step up on this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\/\/illy Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I miss Mike Harris. That guy does want to eat you MarcO! He wants to eat all of us. Scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\/\/illy Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I think it's time to re-instate (well, restate anyway) my old tag line: The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them. - Karl Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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