Congratulations!

[SaggyBalls]

"No, I say that like he's the person that has the power to stop human rights violations, and doesn't.

Please tell me your second sentence isn't a justification."

Birdy, World leaders don't need justification.

They have the bankers on their sides.

As much as Ahmadinejad talks about Zionism, I don't really see him doing much about it besides creating a horrible backlash that supports any side he's not on.

It's all falling into place.

Let's sit back and watch...the stuff we're fed and the stuff we find.

[Birdy]

But, they DO need justification. If the world is content on sitting back and watching, there's no limit to the amount of evil that can be done. Imagine a world where Hitler's actions weren't considered unreasonable? Yikes. And he had the people themselves on his side! When it comes to the treatment of human beings, all actions need to be reasoned.

Honestly, I don't really think Ahmadinejad's going to launch an all out offensive and wipe Israel off the map either, but his policies and position will continue to escalate the situation to frightening levels, and they by no means will pave the way for greater understanding and peace.

[Birdy]

i'm getting random spam emails in my junk mail with headlines such as:

"Deadly blasts through Iranian mosque"

"Paste launches Iranicon to support fair elections"

"Iranians take to streets in mourning March"

weeeird.

before it was all trial samples of this or that, now it's political propaganda.

[SaggyBalls]

Birdy - they DON'T need justification. These events occur either way.

I don't agree with them happening and I can only presume most reasonable people are the same.

The fact that you're getting political spam says a lot about what's being fed to us.

One thing this all solidifies to me is your positive intentions about your interest in the world.

Mostly, the world has been made to either be content to sit back and watch or ineffective enough to do nothing about anything they feel is wrong.

What kind of junk mail do you want to get?

[Birdy]

Well, they DO (haha) need justification. The whole history of the world is made up with events and reactions because we have justified or tried to justify each other's actions. If you don't agree with them happening, well, you attempted justification and failed. It's the stuff wars are made of. It's why i'm getting political spam.

[SaggyBalls]

They only need justification if they intend to be truly 'righteous'.

You're getting political spam because it's a load of crap.

We're not going to get any real understanding of how they justify their actions besides some sort of 'national security' bull that's intended to create fear/security 'issues' on both sides of the argument.

I suppose my approach to your statement is who they're justifying this all to...themselves or others?

They've justified it to themselves. It's all about whatever line of crap they're going to feed to us to justify our involvement for their aims.

Do they need to justify anything to us? no.

How will our leaders justify acts of aggression - political or militarial - against Iran?

The fact that there's spam about it says a lot about the validity of that viewpoint.

[Birdy]

YT,

Everyone justifies their actions, how big or small. It's not about being righteous, it's about applying reason.

Noone needs to justify anything to anyone accept themselves. If they believe they're doing right, they're doing right.

This all started because you said "many world leaders do nothing to truly help the oppressed in their nations" in response to me asking if there was something particularly charming about denying a person the most basic of human rights. My response was that I hoped YOU weren't justifying this kind of behaviour. YOU.

[SaggyBalls]

AAH. Okay.

No I wasn't justifying any of that...I was dismissing it.

[Birdy]

zing!

[SaggyBalls]

It's a real shame that this 'election' could serve to undo all Ahmedinejad said about bringing Democracy to Palestineans - giving them a referrendum (not election) to vote on issues rather than puppet leaders.

[Birdy]

i hate that this is turning into one more example where i need to suck it up and accept taking the good with the bad. how defeating trying to do good is, sometimes.

[Kanada Kev]

Let the Earth Bear Witness. Images of the Iranian protesters, the Sea of Green, with music sung & played by The Waterboys and words by W.B.Yeats. Edited by Ian Barratt :

Edited June 25, 2009 by Guest

[SaggyBalls]

You're far from defeated, Birdy...at least I hope.

As far as the justification thing goes, I see a difference between being justified (having justifcation) and being 'justified' (creating false or questionable justification).

There's truth and there's fact (don't confuse this with data).