Dr_Evil_Mouse

Maybe, but there are rituals centred around identity and practice that raise that into question.

This raises the the problem, though, of there being no common definition anywhere for "religion".

I'd think this gets us into the hopelessly murky world of denotation vs. connotation. You're not suggesting we all speak the same language, with precisely the same associations for all the words? That would fly in the face of millennia upon millennia of human evolution. I think it was Nietzsche who once suggested that language was first conceived not for accurately describing the world, but for lying about it. I'm with him on that; it takes terrific energy to be honest and genuinely interpersonal in communication. If somebody who's black wants to call him- or herself a nigger, or a homosexual a fag or dyke, that's their business. They'll know, more than me, what they're talking about. I'm not going to dare use the same language, though, unless I'm on good and clear terms with them, and they know that I have some sense of their experience, and that I'm not intending it out of the context of all the kinds of violence that have come with those terms. It's that dimension that seems to be completely absent in this whole business of clamping down on others' symbols.

"O Canada/ Our home on Native land..."

More authentic, and imo well to the point, was Terry Jones' piece that he ran in the Guardian et al. back in 2003. I'm Losing Patience with My Neighbours, Mr. Bush

Interesting piece, especially given the context. Gingrich is a freak, in the worst sense of the word.

Birdy, way to Godwin the thread! Are there not occasions for you where you would not use certain words in order to not offend anyone? I would think that you do self-censor, like everybody with a conscience does, so I'm not sure where this is all coming from, unless it's a kind of libertarian thought-experiment.

Ditto .

Tom Wappel - bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Ahem - 'scuse me.

I would be remiss were I not also to throw in this.

Booyeah! Whacky!

You too, eh?

So, given that Christmas was deliberately set up to take over the old Roman solstice traditions, can't we call a spade a spade and run with that?

Well put.

Sorry, no spite intended; I just get frustrated by claims to cultural continuity when the actual substance of the cultural references are missing. I'm a little jumpy around this business. I could talk anybody's ear off on theology, but don't care to because I have largely left it behind. Without it, though, it seems there's nothing left but a vague cloak of identity, and that seems to me an odd path to go down. Truth be told, there are plenty of traditions that I would love to call out loud, but can't. If I go strutting down Bank St. with a big dooby in my hand, what's bound to happen? Yet I find sharing a joint with a friend a far more meaningful experience than walking up to the front of a church to take communion with a bunch of strangers.

I kinda like that. Sure, it's a buzzkill, but that's what I'm all about.

Go to church often?

Those strangers remind me of the Robert Duvall character in The Apostle, who'd chase after car-crash victims to have the thrill of praying with them into the next life. Fucking ghoulish. I'd like to hope there are few people like that around.

We do, though, do our utmost to hide death from ourselves. It's not like that the world over. I think we'd probably do more with and for life, if we knew better what its boundary was.

Well, that's modernity in a nutshell. I'd like to think that Jesus would have approved, too, if we hadn't fucked it up so bad.

We all die. Sometimes in worse ways than others. It's important to be reminded of this, sometimes.

. Yes, very sad. I just saw that quote today about her, Paris Hilton, and Jessica Simpson being the "Three Bimbos of the Apocalypse". Must be hard living that kind of thing down. Maybe she just needs a good skank hug.

Birdy - easy there. Are you telling me there are no words that can be bandied around that will make people uncomfortable, and that maybe, out of consideration, we should hold back on a bit? Maybe Michael Richards was right on the money, that other night? Power to him?

I think it is important, at this cultural crossroads we're all standing at, to make things clear for ourselves and everybody around us. Sure, it's important to keep that Christmas sentimentality alive - our memories are treasures beyond compare - but truth be told, not that many people anymore have any deep connection with the religion, and every innovation in the tradition detached it further from its roots. My real gripe is that this whole debate feeds so easily into the arguments of the Christian Right, that we need to affix Christianity as the centre of all things importantly Canadian. Fwiw, I've always loved the idea of seeing everybody getting in on the Krishna festival Holi in the spring, running around blasting one another in the streets with coloured water. And yes, I do also appreciate how frustrating it is not to have NA Christian traditions, even if only 100 years old, snuffed under the weight of inclusivism. Fact is, I think most immigrants also recognise the season, and want to get in on it, if only to try out a new way to have fun in the most miserable time of the year.

What would they have to say about, say, Victoria's Secret ads on the side of the road (and there are in fact plenty like that around)?