What's a good live recording rig? Looking to buy.

[The Chameleon]

Hi All,

My band is heading out on the road this August and I really want to record the whole tour.

I have in the past recorded shows from the audience side of things with a small stereo mic and a minidisc player.

I recently lost my mini-disc player ar a gig and am looking to get a new rig.

[color:blue]What would be your suggestion for a decent :confused: recording unit and mic. The More specific the better.

Also I'm not looking to spend thousands of dollars.

Your inpuit is appriciated...

[bradm]

I'm currently using a Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 as a recorder, and love it. I've used both DAT and MD, and this beats them both, hands down. The nice thing about it for recording a whole tour is that it has a 20GB capacity, which means it'll hold about 30 CDs' worth of music, even at CD quality (WAV format, 44.1kHz). I got mine on eBay from the manufacturer, which sells refurbished units there, for US$160. It came with one rechargable battery, which gives about 2 hours recording time; it also has a slot for a second battery, which, while expensive (about US$50 + shipping, from the manufacturer), doubles recording time. (The batteries are unique to the unit, so you either have to use them, rig an external pack, or power it off the wall.)

As for mics, you might consider the SP-BMC3 (along with an SP-SPSB-6 to power it). These mics aren't great, but they're small and light, pick up well, and don't need much in the way of external gear (like a mic stand).

With a rig like that (SP-BMC3 > SP-SPSB-6 > JB3) on tour, all you'd really need to do is set the JB3 up where you can see it (to monitor levels and such), tape the mics up somewhere on or near the stage where the sound is moderately balanced (the SP-BMC3s are omni-directional), and start recording. It won't be the best recording, but to give the band a good feel for what it sounds like, it should do OK.

I recorded Inglewood Jack on Canada Day using this setup, with the mics taped up as if they were on a stage mic stand, and I think it came out OK, if you want a comparison.

Aloha,

Brad

[million]

I've never tried the creative nomad jukebox before but have found that the better your mic, the better the results no matter what your actual recording device is. I use a mini disc which I doubt is the best on that side of things but the sound quality I get is fantastic nonetheless. I have used a few different mics and find that my Audio Technica AT831c mic is fantastic. I know a number of other tapers that now swear by this mic. It's not the cheapest (I think I paid around $400 for mine a couple of years ago) but is very small (a lavalier mic) so you have the capabilty to tape shows in stealth mode. I've done some shows where the venue didn't allow taping but the bands did. Some people think you need 2 mics for stereo sound but I use only one and double up the sound when I edit. I see guys all the time that have rigs with mics that are all of maybe 3' apart. It's kind of pointless since both will pic up virtually the same sounds (if you can manage to set up one on each side of the venue, that's a different story). Now this mic requires it's own power supply and I use a portable phantom power unit that converts 2 AAA batteries into 12 volts of power (and can do it for hours and hours... I always change the batteries well before they die). The unit is made by AKG and is model #B15. If you're using this with an AT831c mic, you'll need to convert the mic to XLR for the power unit. Anyway... I highly recommend the AT831c mic. It's been a fantastic mic for me.

Now if it's your band you're recording, why not patch into the soundboard? You'd lose a lot of the crowd but would be able to easily get a good clean sound.

[The Chameleon]

I was thinking of going right from the board, but in some rooms the board mix is not even for each instrument. Many times in smaller clubs they are mixing for the room not the board.

These are all good suggestions though.

[weezy]

I want someone to invent a digital recording unit capable of recording via mics (with separate, adjustable levels) and soundboard line-in (also with adjustable levels) simultaneously with at least 100GB storage. It would be cool if it also recorded the music into files that were totally adjustable afterwards. I guess a laptop is capable of this if paired with a mixer, but who wants to carry, set-up and be responsible for that while touring? With all the technology out there, this invention can easily be made - someone please do it, thx.

[Weirdness]

An Edirol UA5 would be a great bet which would allow you to matrix the mics you buy and whatever is coming out of the soundboard. Add one of those JB3 jobs and you're all set. Whatever mics suit your budget would do just fine. Small issue is that you need a modified UA5 in order to do this as far as I know. They pop up used all the time, I think there's one up right now on www.taperssection.com .

And there are a couple of units out there that allow you to do what you're after Weezy, one is an Edirol R4 I believe and the other is a Sound Devices 744T. Pick one up for me while you're at it...

[SaggyBalls]

if you want to get a line from the board you should always have room mics...

do you expect to spend a load of cash??

if you're looking for portablility, i think brad's got exactly what you need. it's about the size of a discman, sounds awesome, and really...board patches are all over the map.

you COULD go and get a laptop and audio interface but then you'd be looking at a shitload of coin that could walk out of the bar.

if you're thinking matrix (to get low end from kick and a tight bass/synth sound) then that's probably your best bet...

and the better capture you can get the better product you'll have. get good, durable mics that sound crisp and clean...i think tungsten's trying to get rid of a bunch of microphones.

keep em in the fam dudes, and come to vancouver.

[Del]

if you want to get a line from the board you should always have room mics...

do you expect to spend a load of cash??

if you're looking for portablility, i think brad's got exactly what you need. it's about the size of a discman, sounds awesome, and really...board patches are all over the map.

you COULD go and get a laptop and audio interface but then you'd be looking at a shitload of coin that could walk out of the bar.

if you're thinking matrix (to get low end from kick and a tight bass/synth sound) then that's probably your best bet...

and the better capture you can get the better product you'll have. get good, durable mics that sound crisp and clean...i think tungsten's trying to get rid of a bunch of microphones.

keep em in the fam dudes, and come to vancouver.

How many shows have you recorded again?

[SaggyBalls]

how pissy are you again??

have you ever tried to record the line from a board?

have you ever worked in audio?

have you ever recorded anything but a mixed tape?

Edited July 26, 2005 by Guest
out of hand...

[Del]

how pissy are you again??

have you ever tried to record the line from a board?

have you ever worked in audio?

have you ever recorded anything but a mixed tape?

I've never recorded a live show - hence I never gave advice in a thread about recording live shows... Let me check my extensive list of shows to see how many you've recorded... Oh wait, none! Working in audio is one thing, but to give advice about how to tape is another... Since you're not a taper (and never have been, and most likely never will be), maybe you should leave tthe advice to someone who's actually done it... (Unless you have taped, and are hoarding shows you've taped, in which case you are even more ridiculous...) Why do you think you know everything about everything? You clearly don't, hence my "pissiness"...

[SaggyBalls]

fuck del - capturing audio is caputring audio.

I've recorded live but i'm not a 'taper'

the guy's trying to record his band.

i most certainly don't know everything.

you making me out to be a know it all is petty.

a 'live recording rig' is not a 'taper rig'

so since i actually know about the topic i piped in.

[bradm]

Beats brings up an important distinction: if you're in the band that's being taped, you're a bit outside the normal "taper" role, as you have two responsibilities: playing, and running the rig.

As such, convenience becomes more important, both while you're playing/recording, and while your band is on the road.

For example, when Inglewood Jack (which I'm in) played on Canada Day, I brought and used my small stealth rig (which I described above: SP-BMC3 > SP-SPSB1 > JB3), because I also had to bring my guitar gear, and my full rig (Oktava MC-012 > Behringer UB1002 > JB3) would have more than doubled the amount of gear I had to bring. I knew the sound quality wouldn't have been as good as the full rig, but the convenience of the stealth rig made up for the (slight) reduction in quality.

As well, if you're recording your band on the road, your goal is more likely to be making "reference" recordings for the band than for uploads, which also means you can get away with lower quality, which means you can use "less" in the way of gear.

For example, I've seen Shakey of Contact record Contact using a pair of Shure SM-58s, which are typically an on-stage vocal mic, not a taper's mic. They are, however, cheap, and just about bulletproof, which are very useful qualities for a band on the road. He also uses some computer programs to EQ and compress the recordings after the fact (during processing on his PC), which improves the quality dramatically.

JChameleon, what gear (esp. mics, mixers, pre-amps, etc.) do you have right now? You might actually have most (if not all) of what you need right now.

Aloha,

Brad

[dave-O]

Here's what I'm using for doing a matrix these days. Get yourself something like this:

Run your mic on the left, sbd on the right, record to MD/DAT/Nomad/whatever in stereo and do the mic vs sbd mix-down later. It's not perfect but it gets the job done.

[bradm]

What kind of mic are you using with that, dave-O?

Aloha,

Brad

[dave-O]

And further to what BradM is saying, you don't need high quality taper mics for recording bar shows. You can get away with using something with the range of a vocal mic.

Edit to say: I'm using a cheap vocal mic. An SM-58 would be an upgrade to my "rig"!

Edited July 26, 2005 by Guest
same time posting

[The Chameleon]

Hey just to chime in. I do appricate all the good info/advice for my taping question. And I do also appricate Canned Beats info. Even if your not an experienced taper, it doesn't mean you can't be helpful.

Thanks everyone and let's not jump down each other's throats on these threads. I mean "what taping rig to buy?" is a pretty non offensive and non-emotional topic.

[color:blue]Let's not hate on each other in the forum. There is egnough hate in the real world.

Thanks everyone and chill.

P.S. I think I'm going to take Bradm's advice and get one of those Nomad units they look solid.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Guest

[SmoothedShredder]

If you need someone to run your files through a mixer/eq/compressor... I've got it for you J-dawg... oh wait... J-Chameleon

~W