Harper, rights, and marriage

[d_rawk]

So, equal marriage is back up for debate in the house this week. Harper's bill will be defeated, yadda yadda, not too much to see here.

But I just heard Harper say, while talking about why he hoped that Dion doesn't whip the Liberal caucas to vote to uphold SSM, that it is important to allow a free vote on this issue because "the rights of Parliamentarians are some of the most important rights we have in this country" (hope I got the quote right).

GAH! The man is self-parodying.

[phishtaper]

The man is self-parodying.

the sad thing is that people dont see it. yep, gotta protect them poor, misuderstood and discrminated-against parliamentalarians from those evil equal-rights do-gooders.

[d_rawk]

the sad thing is that people dont see it

Yes! Thank you

I've seen it replayed a few times on CTV and CBC, with nary a comment about all the dark, unfortunate (unintended) irony that such a comment contains.

It's a rights issue, that two of the four parties with seats have identified as a fundamental issue of human rights, that many of the courts in the country have indicated is a matter concerning the judicious application of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that the majority of Canadians see as a matter of recognizing the rights of their peers, but Harper says ...

GAH!

[phishtaper]

im just waiting for when he tells us about his personal conversations with god ...

in the end this will be another feeble, and presumably unsuccessful, attempt by the politically-connected wing of the religious right to influence social policy by dictating how others should live, think, breathe, wed, etc.

sadly, ive just come to accept these silly attacks on human rights because I know that for every proposed (or even actualized) step backwards, good people like Egale force two others steps forward. the hurtful thing, though, is that Harper and his ilk are motivated by hate and inequity and thats sad and not Canadian.

hopefully, when he does come to have that final chat with god, he'll get an earful.

[Hux]

Actually Dion has been asserting that it's hypocritical for Harper to attempt to overturn the House's decision on same-sex marriage and then criticize everyone else for wanting out of Afghanistan.

Check out this email that the Honourable Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety sent out to his entire department....

From: Minister of Public Safety / Ministre de la Sécurité publique

Sent: November 28, 2006 9:24 AM

To: NAT-Dist_all_CBSA-tous_ASFC

Subject: Recent Events / Événements récents

English Version *** La version française suit ***

Dear PS Team,

It was 2:30 a.m. in BC. 5:30 a.m. in Montreal. I was in the kitchen, staring out the window into the darkness.

My wife, still half asleep, emerged quietly from the hallway and asked what I was looking at. I said, "Right about now, as we're standing here safe and sound in our kitchen there are more than 700 officers from all over bursting into the hallways and doorways of a whole lot of high risk people." I explained that what was unfolding that day was one of the biggest busts and round-ups of an organized crime group in Canadian history.

Knowing that the gangsters and others getting that early morning 'wake-up' call were being charged with everything from drug crimes and smuggling to attempted murder and extortion I knew the risks that hundreds of officers were facing that very moment. "I don't even want to think about the kind of loaded weapons that a lot of criminals keep under their beds just for moments like this," I said to my wife as she sat down at the table. I heard her whisper something. I asked her what she said. "It's ok, I wasn't talking to you. I was just praying that none of those officers would get hurt this morning" she said.

And none did. Thanks to the element of surprise along with their training and skill the operation was a huge success.

Congratulations to all our people at the RCMP, CSIS, CBSA along with Sûreté du Québec, the Montreal Police and other agencies, who have been working secretly on this Operation Colisée for a long time. I reflected on one aspect, the amount of cocaine that was seized and the amount that will now be prevented from getting to the street. When you break that down into individual hits of crack cocaine you realize that the number of kids who will now be spared, at least for awhile, from instant addiction and destruction is in the thousands.

On another aspect, you probably read that two of our CBSA officers were arrested in the Operation.

The media asked if I felt badly about that. "Of course I do" I said. "But I also feel very good about all the other CBSA men and women who put in an honest day's work, day in and day out, their whole career, keeping our borders safe and moving."

On another note, last week I was at the Annual Cross-Border Crime forum, held this year in the US. Let me tell you, you should have seen how your colleagues performed. The presentations our people did on everything from prisons and policing to emergency planning and border stuff was incredible.

The Attorney-General of the United States, Alberto Gonzales, told me at the end of the conference presentations that his FBI people and other US agencies learn a whole lot from the Canadians and how we go about our business. So whether you were directly involved in these events or not, you can be assured that the things you do every day, whether in Corrections or at the borders, in policing or emergency prep, are making a difference and it does get noticed. And hey, how 'bout those 72 Hour Emergency ads on TV! Good work to everyone who worked on that project. I saw the first ones on TV last week after watching the BC Lions whack the Als in the Grey Cup (And just for the record, I thought the ref was going to need help from Emergency Preparedness when he blew the whistle too soon and stopped the Als touchdown). Anyway, I never cease to be impressed with the diligence and expertise you show on the job every day.

Whether at your desk or at your post you are keeping my kids and grandkids safe and secure.

Thanks again for doing that. Thanks for being 'there'.

Cheers,

Stockwell Day

...I think the "Cheers" sign off is my favourite part.

[Kanada Kev]

I asked her what she said. "It's ok, I wasn't talking to you. I was just praying that none of those officers would get hurt this morning" she said.

And none did.

Ahhh yes, the power of prayer

...I think the "Cheers" sign off is my favourite part.

Surprised he didn't use "God bless". My dad did some "work" with Stockwell. He was doing a presentation at the Toronto Airport Chistian Fellowship http://www.tacf.org/ Stock is into thinking that we were walking around with the dinosaurs 6,000 years ago

I need a drink.

Cheers,

Kanada Kev =8)

[timouse]

The Attorney-General of the United States, Alberto Gonzales, told me at the end of the conference presentations that his FBI people and other US agencies learn a whole lot from the Canadians and how we go about our business.

??

[Hux]

I guess they're better than the yanks at PowerPoint presentations.

[d_rawk]

I guess they're better than the yanks at PowerPoint presentations.

Heh :laugh:

[ollie]

Check out this email that the Honourable Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety sent out to his entire department....

Is this a joke?

When you break that down into individual hits of crack cocaine you realize that the number of kids who will now be spared, at least for awhile, from instant addiction and destruction is in the thousands.

So he's basically admitting that the strategy is ineffective. What a knob.

[Hux]

100% real.

[phishtaper]

Check out this email that the Honourable Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety sent out to his entire department....

LOL, thanks ... my daily funny.

[The Chameleon]

I think Harper and Stockwell are doing each other and are in the closet.

It's always the ones who make the loudest anti-gay noise that actaully are.

[Kanada Kev]

When you break that down into individual hits of crack cocaine you realize that the number of kids who will now be spared' date=' [b']at least for awhile, from instant addiction and destruction is in the thousands.

So he's basically admitting that the strategy is ineffective. What a knob.

Yup ... and based on supply and demand, street prices could increase and therefore lead more addicts to more crime to pay for their habit/sickness. Maybe that's when he breaks out the "It's god's will" cop-out .

http://www.lilithgallery.com/articles/canada/The_Prank_That_Destroyed_StockwellDay.html

[Birdy]

The man is self-parodying.

the sad thing is that people dont see it. yep' date=' gotta protect them poor, misuderstood and discrminated-against parliamentalarians from those evil equal-rights do-gooders. [/quote']

this to me spells out:

rights for some, but NOT FOR ALL!

[d_rawk]

this to me spells out:

rights for some, but NOT FOR ALL!

Hmm, you mean what Harper said, or what PT and I were getting at?

The rights of Parliamentarians are in no danger. An MP can vote however he or she wants, whenever they want. You might face party discipline for not towing the line if the caucas is whipped - your decisions have consequences, as they should. You may end up sitting as an independant. But you're not a prisoner of the party, and there is never anything stopping you from doing what you want/think is right.

So presenting it as an issue of MP's 'rights' being threatened over and above the issue of the actual threatened rights of a section of traditionally disenfranchised citizenry is absurd.

This is to say nothing of the political ins and outs of whether or not it is a good idea for Dion to whip the vote. It is just ... imagine Harper saying the same thing when the issue on the table was 'interracial' marriage or a women's right to choose, etc.. No matter what one thinks of the issues themselves, it seems incredibly bad taste to trumpet the rights of the Parliamentarians who are making these decisive decisions about people's lives and ability to choose how they live them ...

It's bad enough that he could say it with a straight face, but all the worse that nobody called him on it.

[Birdy]

oh no d-rawk, don't get me wrong, i agree!

i quoted pt, cuz what he said seemed to me to raise a question of who is more deserving of 'rights'.

[d_rawk]

Hehe, forgive me my little rant then

[phishtaper]

my MP has consistently voted against SSM despite the fact that she's a Liberal. she recently announced that she is retiring after this term. i just sent her an email:

Mrs Chamberlain,

How do you intend to vote when the Prime Minister introduces a motion to revisit the Civil Marriage Act to take away Court-ordered, Charter-guaranteed rights of your constituents?

Voting for the motion will constitute ignorant, illegal and hateful action on your part - and this will be your legacy.

I look forward to your response and I sincerely hope that you make the right choice this time.

Sincerely,

...

and I cc'd it to the editor of the local newspaper.

nothing will come of it, never did in the past, but I feel better.

[Kanada Kev]

nothing will come of it, never did in the past, but I feel better.

Hey, you never know. Good for you for doing that. If more constituents contacted their MPs, their MPs may do things that they wish since they do represent.

Just saw an article showing that my MP (who never returned my calls when I was locked out by the CBC last year) is voting to NOT re-open the issue. Good for her. Here's the article, as it includes info on the MPs in and around Hamilton/Burlington/Oakville:

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165359016177&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1014656511815

Later . . .

Kanada Kev =8)

np: Neil Young - Prairie Wind

[phishtaper]

an interesting analysis on globe website today

A vote Harper doesn't want to win

ANALYSIS: A same-sex defeat blunts a Liberal arrow from the campaign quiver, Ottawa bureau chief BRIAN LAGHI writes

BRIAN LAGHI

OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

Many Tories in this town have come to the conclusion that Prime Minister Stephen Harper would prefer to lose the parliamentary vote today on reopening same-sex marriage. Those still left wondering might reach back to Monday, when Stéphane Dion asked his first questions in the House of Commons.

The newly minted Opposition Leader signalled that a modern Liberal Party led by him intends to create stark differences between itself and the old-fashioned Conservatives on social issues such as same-sex marriage. He did so by characterizing Mr. Harper as hostile to the Charter of Rights, an issue that Mr. Dion will almost certainly try to exploit on the campaign trail.

But Tory sources say Mr. Harper would dearly like to take some of those arrows out of Mr. Dion's quiver, and that one way to do so would be to lose today's vote.

"You bury the issue by having the thing defeated and it looks like it will be," a senior Tory campaigner said. "I'm not saying you deliberately try to lose the vote . . . You try your best, but the reality of the vote being defeated is it makes it very hard for the opponents of the Conservative Party to attack the Conservatives for a lack of moderation."

Many party members are privately concerned that winning the same-sex vote and forcing yet another national debate on the issue would damage the party on the trail. What Mr. Harper doesn't want is the issue dragging down a new pitch to the middle class that may take the form of more tax cuts or income-splitting.

At the beginning of the last election campaign, Mr. Harper tried to dispose of the same-sex issue early on by promising to hold a vote when he became prime minister and praying that the matter would go away for the rest of the campaign.

Mostly, it did, allowing Mr. Harper to put a clear focus on other priorities such as cutting the GST, sending out $100 daycare cheques to families with preschoolers and wooing Quebec. But the issue indirectly came back to haunt him days before the Jan. 23 election, when he characterized some judges as social activists -- a remark that put many in mind of the party's anti-gay-marriage stand. The comments may have killed some of the momentum he had toward a majority. It's an issue he doesn't need to come back.

Another reason to dump the issue is that a Tory election strategy of promoting hard-conservative ideology to maximize voter turnout is risky. Take the example of the recent by-election in London North Centre. In that contest, the Tories brought into the race an old social conservative, former mayor Dianne Haskett, who was noteworthy for her refusal to sanction a gay-pride parade. At the end of the campaign, she circulated a letter outlining her opposition to same-sex marriage.

The Conservative election theory is that wooing hard conservatives by promoting issues close to their hearts will get them to come out to vote in large numbers. But in the recent U.S. mid-term elections and the London by-election, the strategy may have offended centrists who might have otherwise voted Conservative. Ms. Haskett ended up with 25 per cent of the vote -- a five-point drop.

There were a number of possible explanations for moderate Tories' departure, including the argument that the party didn't appeal enough to the hard right or that the Greens bled off a lot of Conservatives. But it might also be that resurrecting the same-sex issue sheared off the moderate supporters that Ms. Haskett needed to win. Tory thinkers will have to puzzle this one out, but there are some American observers who believe that the strategy -- propagated by Republican adviser Karl Rove -- may have cost his party some seats in the Senate and House of Representatives.

Finally, in putting off the same-sex vote until Mr. Dion came aboard as Liberal leader, Mr. Harper may have waited too long to avoid at least some collateral damage.

If Mr. Harper loses the vote today, he may rid himself of an albatross, but he also ensures that Mr. Dion will argue that he led the charge to beat back an archaic proposal put forward by an out-of-step government. It's an opportunity he wouldn't have been given had the vote taken place under interim leader Bill Graham.

[meggo]

sooo... when's the voting get done??

[Hux]

Actually it's at 3:00 rookie

[d_rawk]

123 Yeas, 175 Nays

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Thursday's motion hollow, Liberals say

...

Liberals called this most recent motion hollow because, even if it had passed, it would not have struck down the right of gays to marry.

Most constitutional lawyers have said the only way the Tories could change the law would be to invoke the notwithstanding clause of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, something Harper has said he would not do.

Before Thursday's vote, Liberal MP Bill Graham called the motion a roundabout procedure.

"[it's] a manoeuvre that takes us nowhere; it's not designed to," he said. "It is designed to divide the House, divide the members of the House and divide the Canadian population on an issue that has been settled."

I submit that, given the etymological affinity throughout the Indo-European languages between "divide" and "devil" (see, e.g., Sanskrit dva, two, Latin duo, German zwei, etc.), that the CPC is an agent of Satan .