So they did it...sort of...

[SaggyBalls]

Now 32 million more Americans have access to health insurance.

...But now they're all legally compelled to purchase it.

On one hand, it's inclusive but on the other it's unfairly mandatory.

those that have found ways to ensure their health without conventional medicine now have another bill to pay.

[phishtaper]

what happens if they dont pay?

[SaggyBalls]

"Alleged" fines.

Though I haven't read the bill, this point has yet to be denied or refuted in the news.

[SaggyBalls]

On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee passed a bill sponsored by Sen. Carey Baker, R-Eustace, that would place the issue on the November ballot and allow voters to decide if they want the constitutional right to opt out. The amendment would pass if 60 percent of voters supported it.

Baker said his measure meets a constitutional test under the 10th Amendment, because it "is solely about individual rights.â€

Attorney General John Suthers says Colorado will join at least 10 other states in a lawsuit seeking to block federal health care legislation.

[SaggyBalls]

But the constitutional question remains. Can the federal government make you buy a specific good or service? Smarter minds than mine claim this is the first time in history that the federal government has enthroned itself with such power. Plaintiffs will line up to file court challenges against this and other constitutional issues raised.

[phishtaper]

can they make you pay taxes? income tax? sales tax? health tax?

[Kanada Kev]

[phishtaper]

LOL, nice one Kev

[ollie]

So, are individuals being forced to pay for this or does it mean that businesses are being forced to pay for their employees healthcare? The latter would make a little more sense.

It's hard to find a concrete "just the facts" description of the bill. Is there a FAQ somewhere?

[Kanada Kev]

Congrats for a step in the right/better direction for a change.

[color:purple]Now, let's go see Fox News for some "fair and balanced" coverage of this historic event

[phishtaper]

hey kev, is that a younger, hottub time machine version of obama watching himself sign the new deal?

ollie, i caught one of the news reports last night that said businesses will pay for employees but that small and medium size companies can apply for grants. i have a feeling its going to be a logistical nightmare to actually enact the new deal.

[Esau.]

I thought I read somewhere that the company's would be required to pay if they employed a specific number of people. I may be remembering it wrong though. (Admittedly, I haven't read through the details.)

[Kanada Kev]

Something had to get done. It's not nearly as good as what was hoped for (Universal Health Care for everyone) but it's better than nothing.

People will have the choice to opt-out too.

One disturbing thing i heard is that the prohibiting of insurance companies the ability to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions won't take effect until 2014. The insurance industry has already learned that if they choose to continue to deny coverage for this reason, they will face a fine .... of $100 !! wtf? I gotta find out some more about that because you KNOW what they'll be doing in that case

p.s. - Obama Hot Tub Time Machine pics ... love it

[phishtaper]

Hot tub time machine kid

[ollie]

Something had to get done. It's not nearly as good as what was hoped for (Universal Health Care for everyone) but it's better than nothing.

People will have the choice to opt-out too.

I read that individuals that don't carry insurance will be levied with a $700 tax.

I don't know if something is better than nothing if it means that *real* reform gets pushed back a few decades. The more I hear about the details of this bill the less it feels good.

[Kanada Kev]

Yup, and people here would feel "less good" if they saw the actual dollar figures they pay here in taxes solely for health care. I'm sure we're paying at least $700 a year towards OHIP. But I'm glad we've got it!

Hell, I just paid $100 to cover my family while on vacation in the US + Caribbean. I don't want to get caught without it down there.

[ollie]

The $700 is a fine, as I understand it. It doesn't buy you health care.

[Kanada Kev]

Ouch.

I guess people have to figure out whether it's worth it to take the risk or not. Essentially that's all insurance is anyhow ... one big fucking gamble.

[SaggyBalls]

Or, depending on your perspective...*not* having health insurance is one big gamble.

[phishtaper]

i listened to a show on sirius on the way home. they said there are so many things in the new law that people are overwhelmed and still figuring it all out. but what i got was:

nothing will be mandatory till 2014.

most employers will pay for the insurance, but will allow opt-outs.

insurance companies must offer competative group plan rates for individuals.

fines on uninsured individuals wont kick in till 2014 and will only be $100/yr to begin with or in some states up to 1% of your salary, going up to $698/yr or up to 2.5% of your salary in the long term (i think 10+ years from now).

insurance companies cannot deny new coverage because of a pre-existing condition and cannot charge more for it. a huge deal because most people in the US have something like high blood pressure, asthma, heart disease, overweight, diabetes, etc. (this seemed to provoke discussion that the new law may be inadvertnely rewarding bad lifestyle by not financially penalizing people for bad lifestyle/ unhealthy behaviour via increased rates).

rates will be lower for existing coverage that has been jacked up due to a pre-existing condition.

insurance companies will be obliged to make rates less than the levels of the fines in the long run. (ie., insurance will be less than the fines ... although they didnt seem to fully understand how this would come about).

generic drugs must be universally allowed.

insurance plans must cover preventative treatments.

a lot of the discussion was admittedly vague, but was interesting to hear.