peipunk Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I think the point Booche is trying to drive mercilessly home is that the Sens deficiencies on defense are resulting in piss poor offensive play whether it be outlet passing, cycling, or just keeping the damn puck in the zone thus resulting in a lower GPG.Even I knew that, and I am hardly a "master debater". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, I understand that but that's not the only point I'm trying to make.I don't think Priessing/Corvo/Meszaros would be making any sort of difference if they were still in Ottawa. Corvo is playing the best out of those 3 this year, but still has fewer points than Kuba.Carolina's top 3 scorers...Whitney 40 pointsStaal 36 pointsBrind'Amour 29 pointsCorvo has 14 assists.Tampa St. Louis 48 pointsVinny 46 pointsRecchi 33 pointsMezzy 14 assistsLABrown 38 pointsKopitar 38 pointsFrolov 34 pointsPreissing 4 assists in 22 gamesOttawaHeatley 45 pointsAlfie 44 pointsSpezza 39 pointsKuba 24 assists....Who's got the best puck moving d-man out of those 4 guys.That's all I'm trying to say...not saying that the d isn't the problem, but still having any of those 3 still would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I get that buuuuuuuuuut Filip isn't playing 60 minutes of hockey.It's moot whether or not Kuba is superior to Preissing, Meszaros or Corvo (he probably is). But he's not better than all three of those guys taking ice time on various shifts. The Sens are lacking the depth on D to have someone on the ice consistently enabling production across all of the lines. Look at the other lines point totals.2006-2007 Sens - Phillips, Redden, Corvo, Meszaros, Volchenkov, Preissing2008-2009 Sens - Phillips, Picard, Kuba, Lee, Smith, Bell There just isn't enough to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Johnson Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 My memory is short...did the Sens fire Muckler right after making it to the cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 That's all I wanted anyone to get.Priessing Corvo or Meszaros would not make a difference right now.They obviously did 3 years ago, when they all played together.According to Booche;Preissing or Corvo or Mezsaros or Redden-PicardKuba-LeePhillips-A-Trainwould somehow win the Stanley Cup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Well seeing as they couldn't win the cup with the 2006-2007 roster I doubt it but it might have them in playoff contention.I think having any 2 of those 3 and not skating Bell and Lee would make a difference.Have you seen Bell try to set up behind net and get things going....it's terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Unfortunately the past is the past....All those players are gone, and Murray wasn't able to shore up a D that we should have. Hence why he should have been fired.The short story here is that the entire team is to blame, not just the defence. There are alot of other players not performing, Fisher, Kelly, Vermette, just to name a few.Anyhoo, just another day in the argument department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hey, lay off Fish, he's a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 There are alot of other players not performing, Fisher, Kelly, Vermette, just to name a few.Add Heater, Spazza and Alfie.Hmmmmmm. I wonder why that is?To fix something you have to start somewhere and its pretty obvious where Murray has instilled his core, so...........According to Booche;Preissing or Corvo or Mezsaros or Redden-PicardKuba-LeePhillips-A-Trainwould somehow win the Stanley Cup... Dont make shit up. This debate may save someone's life man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 This debate may save someone's life man! At the very least, it's saving me from doing my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 There are alot of other players not performing' date=' Fisher, Kelly, Vermette, just to name a few.[/quote']Add Heater, Spazza and Alfie.Hmmmmmm. I wonder why that is?To fix something you have to start somewhere and its pretty obvious where Murray has instilled his core, so...........According to Booche;Preissing or Corvo or Mezsaros or Redden-PicardKuba-LeePhillips-A-Trainwould somehow win the Stanley Cup... Dont make shit up. This debate may save someone's life man!I thought that's what we were arguing about via email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I think your post should have been more inclusive so I can continue fucking the dog. Can we argue about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 All I know is we'll land Jay-bo and everything will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I thought that's what we were arguing about via email? I never suggested the Sens would make the playoffs let alone win the Stanley Cup.I think your post should have been more inclusive so I can continue fuÇking the dog. Can we argue about that? I thought we just did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peipunk Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) so I can continue fucking the dog. Can we argue Go fuck yourself. Edited February 3, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I love you guys.However...Andre's made me smoke about a half a pack of smokes today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The timing on this firing couldnt have been better. I am working on some stupid project that is pissing me off so it was great to come in here all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Never expect NHL players to tell you how they really feel about an ex-coach with a dozen microphones stuck in their chin. Sometimes, they’ll put on their sad face and feign shame for the cameras, then hoot and high-five in the back room later, thrilled to see the jerk gone.Let’s be clear, the Ottawa Senators did not do that Monday when they learned Craig Hartsburg had been fired. They do feel shame. They know Hartsburg is a good man. They know they are now on their fourth coach in less than one season, and are embarrassed at the notion that they have become “uncoachableâ€. The Senator players I spoke to Monday took collective responsibility for getting Hartsburg fired. And every one of them called him a “good hockey coach†who they have respect for. They wanted to win for him. They weren’t chest-bumping as he walked out the door.But they weren’t exactly crying in their Gatorade either. They was a divide between coach and players. When you sit 27th in the standings, there is always a divide.The problem many Senators had with Hartsburg was his stubbornness. He implemented a system in training camp, and refused to budge from it. Nary a tweak. The players say when things went bad, Hartsburg always believed it was because of “a lack of effortâ€. There was never any other explanation.Specifically, the one-man forecheck drove many players nuts. They believe they are at their best as an aggressive team, with 2 men always going hard into the opposition’s end, the way they did during the Cup run two springs ago. Having that second man hang back left them “standing around an awful lot.†Yet they never strayed from it.The other main beef with Hartsburg was his negativity. Oh, he had plenty to be negative about with this team, that’s for sure. But there were moments where the Senators were desperate for positive reinforcement, and never got it.They point to a stretch before the All-Star break where they went 3-0-1, and showed signs of making a run. Yet several players say even after the wins, Hartsburg would come into the room and pick out only the mistakes, further eroding their already shaky confidence.Make no mistake. No one in that room is putting the blame on Craig Hartsburg for the team’s predicament. They are smarter than that. They realize their “coach's fault†excuse ran out about two coaches ago.Just like you, the Senators don’t have an answer to their woes. But most are certain of at least one thing: this time the coach won’t be the only change. This time, some of them will be following Craig Hartsburg out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badams Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Ottawa is the new Tampa Bay. Three big stars and nothing else. The only difference is T Bay won the Cup with their chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 In response to AD's post, I had no idea so many Terrell Owens played hockey. What a bunch of coach-killing-coddledcunts!Positive reinforcement? Please. A coach is supposed to point out mistakes no matter if you lose 7 - nothing or win by the same amount. That's how you learn. I fuckingwell hope Hartsburgh hangs some of these selfish pricks out for the rest of the league to see. Maybe a GM will think twice about grabbing one of them.He probably wont if he wants another crack in the NHL but I sure hope he knocks on that door a little bit. They had a problem with his stubborness? I can just imagine what he went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 aw booche you're so emotional when you talk of your beloved sens.i thought this paragraph was interesting: "Specifically, the one-man forecheck drove many players nuts. They believe they are at their best as an aggressive team, with 2 men always going hard into the opposition’s end, the way they did during the Cup run two springs ago. Having that second man hang back left them “standing around an awful lot.†Yet they never strayed from it."Seems to me Alfie or Phillips or someone should have said something. And if they did, Hartsburg should have listened. Or at least watched some tape of the Cup-run-year and see what was different. Seems to me that a hard forecheck is something that even a novice tape-watcher could pick out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Another beauty lossoh, and Preissing was a scratch Edited February 4, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Seems to me that a hard forecheck is something that even a novice tape-watcher could pick out. You need to have the right personel to play that style, specifically a solid D for the inevitable counter-attack when the forecheck fails not to mention the right forwards who can skate as well as willing to give/take a hit, and I would bet Hartsburgh knew he didnt have it. Much more than you or I and the rest of the flubbers on the Sens squad anyways. If I am Bryan Murray, those whiney sonsofbitches who called out their former coach would be the first to go.oh, and Preissing was a scratch A scratch for the Kings doesnt mean a scratch for the Sens, not by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 [color:purple]well, you're the expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I love my Sens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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