Birdy

I would have preferred he step down for a CP replacement, but fuck. No. I don't mean to try to be sympathetic, because i'm not, but i think it's a tough spot to be in in the CP camp, considering everything the party has been through to get themselves there. They've had a shitload of rebuilding to do to get them out of the mess they were (CP/Alliance/Reform/post Mulroney) to get them to where they are today. For the most part, Harper's ruling with an iron fist has worked wonders for them, and for him and maybe others the question to step aside may have the potential to break apart everything they've worked so hard to put together in the past few years, not just the government, but the party. I don't know... i'm just wondering. But, it seems that this might be the case. Either way, he's a douche. I don't know what's going to happen in the next month, but I can surely bet there will be some primo media coverage of it. Paid for primo media coverage. I hear what everyone is saying about the whole democratic-ness of the situation, but our system is very partisan, which makes a lot of people vote not for their MP, but for the party (i'm included in that category). And when you vote for that MP belonging to that party, you expect him/her to be committed to the party - as the definition of partisan. So when a coalition government comes about, that person/party you voted for, sheds some of their partisanship. (which i'm not saying is a bad thing, but not what a lot of people actually voted for). Still sticking to my guns though and saying we should not have a coalition government supported by separatists. Harper's a douche, but he's right about that. I was talking to my bro last night out in Calgary and I guess all the Albertans are getting super loud and angry over the possibilities of this coalition, and lots of alberta flags were coming out. Not cool, whether you think they're cowboys or not. Same for Vancouver and Kelowna. The west wasn't too happy about the coalition.

Well, i do think he's a spineless puke. But I disagree with you saying it's not undemocratic with the reasoning it's the way parliament is run. Obviously our system isn't so democratic. Because ultimately, if a coalition took over, I didn't vote for them, and neither did you.

I have a question reading some of the comments on here... What do you guys think Harper should have done? If he didn't prorogue, do you think he should have pushed for an election? Obviously he's not going to sit back and let the coalition come to fruition (thank god) (which is much more undemocratic in my opinion), so what other option did he have?

Do you think his ass is saved? I don't. It better not be. I wonder what's going on inside of camp Conservative these days. To overthrow government at the BEGINNING of a session shows how screwed up this system is too. And then to further that by forming a coalition that must rely on separatists to hold it together sets a very dangerous precedent for future governments. This is a lose, lose, lose situation whichever way it fell.

well, Dion's got that locked down with a coalition supported by the Bloc.

Maybe. I wonder if the replacement is a moderate if the Reformers will leave. Harper glued the two together.

Harper didn't clarify anything.

Wha? I stopped watching and am on my way out the door... but Dion's going to step down as leader and possibly PM if the coalition becomes a reality? Wha? I thought Dion was the 'unanimous' decision as the leader now, and therefore PM if the thing happens? I'm confused.

are Ducceppe and Layton sending in tapes too? i assumed they were... and that's what my 'why' has to do with it. i think it kind of inappropriate that they address the nation... it should just be the PM and the leader of the opposition.

Why are Ducceppe and Layton speaking? This is f'ing joke.

Oh... and that's just confirmed.

My vote is he's going to prorogue.

No this will be my first year! Are you just going for the Friday night? Pete Seeger is playing Saturday night too. I can't wait either.. i've heard nothing but good things. And I love the Ark.

Seconded.

I am!

Ideally, what I'd want is for the age old rift between the conservatives and the liberals to disappear and for the majority of them to realize what so many of us have already realized, that they're almost one in the same. Get rid of the right-right and the left-left and we could have a moderate government who actually accomplishes something, rather than sleeps with one eye open, constantly on edge of opposition's attacks. I'd feel good about such a party. In this situation, I have no idea what I want. It's too hard to say. I don't want a coalition, and I don't want an election. Ideally, probably, i'd want the Opposition to accept what the Conservatives have ceded, and I'd want them to stop making it out to be all of us, against one of him. I like Jim Prentice. I like Peter McKay. There are good people behind Harper. I know Harper fucked up and I understand the whole lack of confidence in government, but I understand that lack of confidence to be wholly invested in Harper, not necessarily the Conservative party. But when Harper rules his party with an iron fist, I don't know. This situation is fucked.

We'd decide. Just because it's in the rules, doesn't make it democratic.

What right-minded caucus wouldn't turn against him? Gigs up buddy! There's no turning back now. In a way though, I feel sorry for him, as I'd feel sorry for anyone who ruined their entire career with one false move. Like i feel sorry for goalies on hockey teams letting in game winning goals in do or die series, when my team scored the game winning goal. It's all very sad - everything. The demise of Harper, the frustration of the CP, the what the fuck are the Liberals doing, the power grab of the NDP and the sell-out of the Bloc. While people are supportive of the coalition because of their want to get rid of the CP, really, they should have nothing to be proud of. Noone in this situation is better than the other. I third AD's finger. I'm in a weird place right now... I find my heart softening a little bit towards the whole situation. Softening not because I support a coalition, but softening because there's not really anything I can do about... the cards are on the table and whatever happens is going to happen. Which is sad, because in a democracy, if we were a democracy, I wouldn't ever think it would come down to saying 'whatever happens is going to happen'. I want Harper to fire Flaherty and subsequently resign.

Anyone else going? Is it just me? Swifty?

My position has nothing to do with 'my beloved Conservatives', who were never my beloved and frankly aren't even in my liking books right now. I honestly get that Harper fucked up royally, and don't disagree with anything anyone has to say in this forum in that regard. I personally would demand his resignation over it. I've thought of Peter McKay as the moderate replacement. What I don't like is the fact that it's become apparent that the Opposition doesn't want to work with the Government either. They accuse Harper of something, they themselves are guilty of. They say that their push for a coalition isn't partisan in nature, they say it's because of his economic policy. Well, his economic policy hasn't changed. They have taken our election and overturned it with their own partisan agendas. If you're going to debate this with me, acknowledge that the CP economic policy has not changed. This is completely partisan in nature and hence why i said we've been had.

Opportunism. What happens when the coalition is no more and we go back to the old days of voting for the NDP, the Liberals, the Greens, the Bloc, the Cons, etc.? You hope some Cons quickly cross to other parties? For what? To argue policy with an NDP cabinet minister? To somehow completely forget that they are right-wing in ideology and vote in favour of left-wing policy, which ultimately will pass regardless of their vote, because the Bloc has promised to make it happen? To snuggle up to Dion in hopes of being given some glorious cabinet position, which they will never get? To sell-out their voters? TB, what's your answer to Ollie's question? Sorry for being snarky, but I feel Canadians in general have just been had, in a very big and bad way.

You don't think the others are playing partisan politics? Really? This is the most outward display of partisan politics I've ever witnessed. Ever. I agree that Harper totally fucked up, quite possibly ruined his political career, lost the confidence of the House, but for the Opposition to continue to insist that this isn't about them feeling threatened on the partisan level, but rather is about his economic policy... well, that hasn't changed since the campaign and the election, and they've yet to address that he got elected on these grounds. The foot they plunge forward on is a foot already voted on by Canadians and won by the CP. So in that regard, i'm left to think this is nothing other than a power grab by all of the Opposition parties, the NDP for obvious reasons (Cabinet Ministers!), the Bloc for obvious reasons (Quebec first!) and the Liberals for ? (what else can we do to look credible!?). Honestly if there was an election to come out of this, I would seriously consider not voting.

hahaha, me too!

Oh, I want a made in Canada package too. But to simply nudge away the US and (maybe?) insinuate that an auto sector package is the only thing worth waiting for, falls a little short imo. Ours is dependant on theirs on many, many levels. Unfortunately. Here's a question - now that all of these concessions are met, aren't the strings that bind the coalition together, the same strings that we voted on 7 weeks ago? The same strings that saw the CP get re-elected? The opposition leaders are accusing the CP of nothing new than that which they accused of them during the campaign. Fucking democracy.

Bye-bye the rest of Canada! Hello Quebec! Anyone heard anything from Danny Williams about this? I've read a bunch of stuff from other Premiers, but nothing from Danny. I wonder if he's happy that he might finally have gotten his 'anything but the Conservatives' victory, as such a cost.