NewRider Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 From http://michaelmoore.com/ Bill Timmins President Aladdin Casino and Hotel Las Vegas, NV July 20, 2004 Dear Mr. Timmins: I understand from the news reports I've read that, after Linda Ronstadt, one of America's greatest singers, dedicated a song to me from your stage on Saturday night, you instructed your security guards to remove her from the Aladdin, which they did. What country do you live in? Last time I checked, Las Vegas is still in the United States. And in the United States, we have something called "The First Amendment." This constitutional right gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say. All Americans hold this right as sacred. Many of our young people put on a uniform and risk their lives to defend it. My film is all about asking the questions that should have been asked before those brave soldiers were sent into harms way. For you to throw Linda Ronstadt off the premises because she dared to say a few words in support of me and my film, is simply stupid and Un-American. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening. I read that you wouldn't even let her go back up to her room at your hotel! Are you crazy? For crying out loud, it was a song DEDICATION! To "Desperado!" Every American loves that song! Sure, some people didn't like the dedication, and that's their right. But neither they nor you have the right to remove her from your building when all she did was exercise her AMERICAN right to speak her mind. Of all the things that go on in Las Vegas, this is what creates the need for serious action? What about the other half of the crowd at the Aladdin who, according to the Las Vegas Sun, cheered her when she made her remarks? Did you throw them out, too? I think you owe Ms. Ronstadt an apology. And I have an idea how you can make it up to her -- and to the millions of Americans you have offended. Invite her back and I'll join her in singing "America the Beautiful" on your stage. Then I will show "Fahrenheit 9/11" free of charge to all your guests and anyone else in Las Vegas who wants to see it. Mr. Timmins, as the song "Desperado" says -- "Come to your senses!" How can you refuse this offer? I await your reply. Yours, Michael Moore Director, "Fahrenheit 9/11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokonon Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 people are blindly following whatever crap they see on fox and read in usa today (or the national post, for canadians) i really wish people would just try to analyze the beliefs that they hold, instead of just being part of the popular culture. BURN THE BANDWAGON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Doonesbury is jabbing at Fox this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinw Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 people are blindly following whatever crap they see on fox and read in usa today (or the national post, for canadians) i really wish people would just try to analyze the beliefs that they hold, instead of just being part of the popular culture. People are also blindly following what Michael Moores spins for them in his movies and books. He spins an even more skewed version of the truth than the network channels. I can't believe how many people have seen his crap and believe it as gospel, not even taking the time to research for themselves the truth behind all of the issues.Anyone needs more than one viewpoint to understand an issue. How can you base what you believe on the ramblings of a supreme leftist or rightist and not have a bit of curiosity as to what the other side of the argument is?Moore's movies are the ultimate example of people blindly believing what they see in pop culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Factual Back-Up For Fahrenheit 9/11 I agree Moore is over the top and definitely has some skewed opinions/facts. But at least with him out there people get to actually HAVE a left side to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 People are also blindly following what Michael Moores spins for them in his movies and books. He spins an even more skewed version of the truth than the network channels. I can't believe how many people have seen his crap and believe it as gospel, not even taking the time to research for themselves the truth behind all of the issues. Anyone needs more than one viewpoint to understand an issue. How can you base what you believe on the ramblings of a supreme leftist or rightist and not have a bit of curiosity as to what the other side of the argument is? Moore's movies are the ultimate example of people blindly believing what they see in pop culture. if you follow the news and read up about the world, most of what Moore says you already knew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Huxtable Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I agree Moore is over the top and definitely has some skewed opinions/facts. But at least with him out there people get to actually HAVE a left side to listen to. Exactly! Who else has the balls to even discuss the left side? Moore and Jon Stewart. It's certainly skewed for entertainment value, but at least it's something. 911 made me think. Of course I didn't take it too seriously. It was over the top and completely one-sided. But it MADE ME THINK! That's more than I can say for 99% of the entertainment out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 "I can't believe how many people have seen his crap and believe it as gospel...Anyone needs more than one viewpoint to understand an issue." Are you suggesting that people who have seen Moore's new film have only seen his side of the story?!?!? That these people have never heard Bush's side of the story (which is in every newspaper and every tv station)? Come on, get your head out of your ass, that's a stupid and insulting fu©king statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinw Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 "I can't believe how many people have seen his crap and believe it as gospel...Anyone needs more than one viewpoint to understand an issue." Are you suggesting that people who have seen Moore's new film have only seen his side of the story?!?!? That these people have never heard Bush's side of the story (which is in every newspaper and every tv station)? Come on, get your head out of your ass, that's a stupid and insulting fu©king statement. Easy there, don't have a stroke. I was pointing out that many people see the film and think it is 100% true and base their opinions solely on F911, without bothering to research any other side of the story. I am sure lots of people understand and know the Bush side of things, but many don't. I just find it interesting that most people who agree with Moore only site his articles and movies as their research and 'proof'. They are only looking at one side of the story to bolster their argument, no matter how widespread ay other argument may be in any number of media outlets. I don't know what you're all bent out of shape about, or why you feel the need to make personal attacks. I guess you don't see the need to see both sides of any argument! :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 "I was pointing out that many people see the film and think it is 100% true and base their opinions solely on F911, without bothering to research any other side of the story." Dont need to research the other side of the story, its getting rammed down my throat by Fox, CNN, NBC, and the rest of that crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I personally didn't like the way Moore presented (edit: some of) Bowling for Columbine, but the point of the movie was a valid one even if he took some cheap shots (heaven forbid Fox or CNN would ever do such a thing)as I mentioned before, anyone who's been paying attention shouldn't be too suprised by much in F 9/11... its basically been a matter of facts that have been building ever since Bush got into power... all thats really new is some of the video footage and the way the presentation is all bonded togetherof course people are going to be embracing it right now, they need to with what a horrific mess Bush has turned the world into while all anyone's been hearing is "them terrorists need the crap kicked out of them"... its going to take generations to restore the peace... thats been obvious for quite some time... Moore just finally states the obvious for everyone in a manner in can be grasped as a whole, and kudos to him for itposted this last night in another thread: What Can We Do About Terrorism?written by a Republican (like Bush) who was the director of the Star Wars Program and is a retired Lt. Col. of the Air Force who flew 101 missions in Vietnam... its totally common sense and should have been listened to when it was written in 2001... brilliant piece of writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 thats funny Pais, cause i preferred BFC over F911... But Roger and Me is still, by far, the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 It's a volatile political environment in the US and the knives come out. I don't think even Michael Moore would admit to a "balanced" approach to his movie(s) - I don't think that's a consideration. It gets people talking and thinking and may just have an effect on the US election. The Republican Party has a close relationship with most mainstream media outlets in the US, so it's no wonder people take to a contrary viewpoint with such zeal. Moore simply consolidates viewpoints that don't receive serious merit in mainstream media circles, just the way the Bushies like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 don't get me wrong tube, I liked the movie and realize it was a movie that needed to be made... just questioned some of the ways he made his points in it (read the article I linked above, truly beautiful) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokonon Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 michael moore does do a lot of citations in his books as to demonstrate where he took his information from. also, he is incredibly sensationalistic, which i think is uncharacteristic of most documentaries. personally, i find his style to be entertaining and intriguing. i think michael moore provides a gateway to the more scholarly and academic left wing media. he is like "sustainable politics 101" you won't learn too much depth, but at least you will know the terminology and be aware of what the issues are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhishyK Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I think this line sums it all up: Those who complain that Ronstadt should just sing, rather than express her opinions, forget that all art has a responsibility to inspire and provoke, not just soothe and entertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 michael moore does do a lot of citations in his books as to demonstrate where he took his information from. EXACTLY!!! I posted a link to his website where he states where all his information came from for the film! It's NOT coming from one side, it's coming from EVERY side. He may blow his opinion up quite a bit but a FACT IS A FACT!!! I think most people on this board are pretty aware of what's going on south of us. This film is for people that DON'T know, there are a lot of them out there. Republicans sit back and say the same sh!t you are Colin. Well, how can you dispute a FACT? He stole the election in 2000, that is A FACT! Have you even SEEN the film?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Colinw, pointing out that your statement was asinine by suggesting you have your head up your ass and going on to put a finer point on it by commenting that your statement was stupid and insulting is not a personal attack. It's attacking your viewpoint. A personal attack would be saying something about your mother or calling you a fatty-fat-fat or something, which I didn't do and I'm not doing now. First, there is not a soul in North America who walks into a showing of F911 without knowing that Bush claims to have invaded Iraq because of WMD's, or that there was a contested election when he became president, or that he claims to be "doing right by America", etc... You would have to be some kind of subversive freak to be living in North America today and be familiar with only the left's agenda. And yeah, of course it's an agenda, it's politics. Second, Moore makes his sources very available, and while his points of view are obvious and his films/books/essays clearly are written to illustrate his points (and what's wrong with that?), he's not making sh!t up (whereas Bush & Co. are making sh!t up). Of course people are going to try and find inaccuracies, and yes, I've read a lot of his criticism, but let's see how many people take him to court. Sure it's easy for Moore to say "Bush did this and I have proof, look at these pieces of paper", but it's just as easy for a righty to say "Moore is lying and I have proof, look at these pieces of paper", but I'll bet nobody is willing to take Moore to court to prove their claims, lest the real truth get out. Anyway, there wasn't much new in F911 that wasn't in the papers in the last year or two, but I appreciate that somebody is taking all this stuff from the back pages (where most anti-Bush stories seem to end up) and collecting them in an informative, entertaining front-page type media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 posted this last night in another thread: What Can We Do About Terrorism? written by a Republican (like Bush) who was the director of the Star Wars Program and is a retired Lt. Col. of the Air Force who flew 101 missions in Vietnam... its totally common sense and should have been listened to when it was written in 2001... brilliant piece of writing That letter does make a lot of sense. I had never really thought about terrorism from that perspective. I could never condone terrorism, but I do believe everyone(including a democratically elected govt) needs to be accountable for their actions, and the first step in resolving any dispute needs to be acknowledgement of both parties of their role in creating the dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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