Detox recommendations?

[Sunshine]

thanks again for the advice, suggestions, and warnings!!!

(hey bouche, don't forget another good way to release the bad toxins is REFLEXOLOGY!! wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

[MoMack]

My two cents lines up with Polkaroo - while no authorities are to be trusted full stop, ie. always question authority, to say a MD is useless on the topic is insane. They are trained to know your body and how it works.

I've been thinking about doing a detox myself, out of curiosity. But for me to not ask my doctor about it would be ludicrous. He's the one that just read the plethora of blood tests and whatnot that I got. He's the one that told me I'm 100% healthy. He's be the one that would be able to say what I'm missing based on this data, and what could harm me if I further reduce it.

While naturopaths and homeopaths and other "Quack" medicines, may be valuable and helpful, and I fully support developing them and implementing them with trained professionals, lets not forget that they are QUACK medicine by definition.

Professional societies are heavily regulated in Canada in order to protect the public. This is not the case for natural medicine. Largely due to the fact that the scientific basis is not there (arguably due to lack of interest, but still...)

Be careful.

[Kaidy Mae]

While naturopaths and homeopaths and other "Quack" medicines, may be valuable and helpful, and I fully support developing them and implementing them with trained professionals, lets not forget that they are QUACK medicine by definition.

By definition? Really?

MoMack, I think it's awesome that you have a doctor that you can trust. Many people are not so lucky. My doctor is so busy that I am constantly second guessing his recommendations and researching a lot on my own. There's not a whole lot you can do when there's a shortage though. I still see mine on a regular basis. You are right, these are smart people, trained to know the human body.

Huge HOWEVER though...to say that NDs are "quacks" is utterly hilarious. You are required to have 3 years of university level science under your belt (as well as 2 years of science as it relates to health and anatomy) before you can even apply to study naturopathic medicine (which is also a 4 year degree). No offence, but it's a little ignorant to think that someone could be in post-secondary studies for up to 9 years and not learn anything of value simply because it doesn't qualify as "traditional". What we now consider traditional medicine has really not been around that long (antibiotics are only approx. 50 years old). Natural medicine has been around for thousands of years! Since Jesus was a cowboy! These are trained professionals!

Professional societies are heavily regulated in Canada in order to protect the public. This is not the case for natural medicine. Largely due to the fact that the scientific basis is not there (arguably due to lack of interest, but still...)

Lack of interest...or lack of cashola from the pharmaceutical companies? The "health" industry is one of the fastest growing industries in North America. And it is regulated. Grab an herbal remedy off of the shelf and you will not be able to find out on the label what it is for. Unless properly ($) tested, Health Canada does not allow companies to make claims. When there is funding in the future for testing, the paradigm will shift to further embrace natural medicine.

[d_rawk]

Wowza. I can see this thread getting rather heated from this point on.

In the interests of keeping things on the calmer side, I'd like to invite you to reconsider the following ... mostly because I don't think you really mean what you said (though I might be mistaken)

I fully support developing them and implementing them with trained professionals

If you are sincere about the above, then I'm not sure how you could also be sincere about this ...

lets not forget that they are QUACK medicine by definition

... as quack(ery) - by definition - is a charge of knowingly and fraudulently misleading people with bogus information, services, or products. That is, if it has enough merit to warrant further implementation with "trained" professionals (ignoring for a moment that naturopaths are trained professionals operating within a regulated industry, at least in Canada) than it can't also be 'quack' medicine. Actual - or even potential - merit is exactly what quackery isn't.

I think your post comes off a lot harsher than you probably meant it to due to unfortunate word choice, is what I'm trying to say.

[snarfmaster C]

"Read as much as you can before putting anything into your body." (Kaidy Mae)

good call, i'm with you there. i'm by no means super healthy in my day to day lifestyle (ay eisenglas ) there's so much crap in prepared foods, and even in conventionally raised meat, dairy and produce... i believe if more people knew the science behind the medicines, pesticides, herbicides, steroids and everything else the food industry would be very different than it is.

i'm not going to get into that any further though... i could go off.

MoMack - if you're serious about doing a detox i'd recommend taking your recent blood work to a naturopath. the doctor will spend a lot of time with you reviewing your history, lifestyle, diet and such, but if you have actual recent tests that would be even better. you might be surprised at how knowledgable naturopaths are. i sure was.

[Im going home Donny]

I've done the Master cleanse but took lots of Spirulina as well.

Not sure I'd do it again...I know loads of folks will swear by it but something just doesn't sit right about doing it hardcore...but thats just my feelings. I like the couple days a month idea with Spirulina and lots of water and mabey a couple bowls of veggies. Laura.S. does the Wild Rose, mabey ask her what she thinks of that or how strongly she adheres to it.

Definately speaking with a Naturopath seems like the way to go...I know thats expensive...thats why I haven't spoken to one in over 6 years....hah though if I could just get off the f*cking ciggies I could easily afford one!

Hypnotist here I come! I would say mabey just getting yerself off that crap would go a long way to cleansing the system.

BTW Sunshine on that note Laura.S. is learning accupuncture and has learned the addictictions/ear/trick...going to couple that with hypnotism myself.

As far as yeast goes...sugar and sugar substitutes are pretty dang nasty for sure.

When I did see a naturopath many moons ago I did a yeast busters type cleanse...not cheap but well worth it...had to drink a pretty nasty concontion daily that was similar to cement....mmm yummy.

Let me know what ya find out....trying to tidy house a bit too! Allmost tottaly off dairy and it feels great....but I am a bit intolerant to dairy anyways so...

anyways good on ya sister!

[\/\/illy]

It's funny that you brought this up Sunshine; I've been planning to do a Master Cleanse for the last month or so and am just trying to get my timing right. From the relatively little research that I've done, I like the sounds of the Master's Cleanse. However, I also heard a doctor on the radio tell a caller that was asking about enemas that if he wanted to 'cleanse' his system all he had to do was consume nothing but water for about three days and things would be taken care of.

Colon cancer is a big killer; be good to your colon and hopefully it'll be good to you. Cleansing is something that nature would have probably taken care of in the past. I'm sure that in hunting/gathering times there would have been stretches where the hunters and the gatherers came back empty handed and everyone 'fasted' for a few days or weeks until the next catch. That being said, it sounds like a pretty natural thing for your body to go through. I'm going to give it a try, I just need to find a good source of organic cayenne pepper, organic grade B maple syrup, and organic lemons.

I also had a close friend do this cleanse for about 10 days and he said that he felt it did him worlds of good and the difficulty was giving up the cleanse and returning to eating becuase he didn't want to lose the energy he felt while cleansing.

[Im going home Donny]

Wheatgrass is supposed to be absolutely wonderfull for cleansing! So I've heard.I try to stay away from wheat myself cause it gives me hives when I have too much,so I figure wheatgrass...hmmm....not sure though might be different? Moose mabey?

I have begun taking greens plus again after many years and I think it does wonders...could be in my head....not entirely sure.

Moose-I have to spend more time with you picking your brain when I'm not in party mode...I think its filled with tonnes of stuff I'd find very interesting...I think we on the same page sista!

haha...on that note....hope you'll be at Shans party!

Oh Sunshine just recalled a great book that seems to be sold in most health stores...definately Rainbow foods is Prescription for Nutritional healing A-Z...I used to have it but it burned baby....tottally reccomend this book...you've probably seen it around but if not heres what it looks like.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895297272/104-2377633-7480765?v=glance

Edited May 4, 2005 by Guest

[\/\/illy]

As far as yeast goes...sugar and sugar substitutes are pretty dang nasty for sure.

Sugar is "white death". I could not be more convinced. Everything seems to have sugar added to it. Don't believe me; start taking a look around. If you want to be really shocked, read the ingredient list on the side of a box of Windsor salt. That's right, sugar is an ingredient in salt. WTF?!?

Allmost tottaly off dairy and it feels great....but I am a bit intolerant to dairy anyways so...

Dairy is another weird thing. It's really remarkable that we consume it. There was a really good article about milk in Discover magazine (August 2000) if you're looking for some reading. The consumption of milk is primarily a North American thing and upwards of 80% of all people are lactose intolerant to some degree. Most people just ignore the symptoms. Another interesting thing I recall from the article is that the inability to break down lactose is the primary mechanism in weening. Babies lose their ability to process the lactose and start turning away from the breast. This is nature's design.

All that being said, I still cannot give up cheese. I haven't had milk in years (probably since that article) but I just love cheese far to much to give it up. It's sad really.

[Im going home Donny]

yeah cheese is a tough one!

I've been adding soya cheese to stuff and well...hoping to it will grow on me! Ten years ago I was vegan for a stint, then 8 years ago too but kudos to folks who can stick to it cause its not that easy at all!

I think goats milk and cheese might be better for you...but haven't looked too far into this myself.

White sugar yeah no good and yeah a few years ago I decided no more sugar and basicly have had to give up juice alltogether and just stick to whole fruits instead. I think even brown and raw aint much better.

Though mabey mollassis is okay?

aspertame....oh man bad stuff...Thankyou Monsanto for Aspartame and agent orange! Holy sh1te start googling that and its pretty freaky!

In one of the art schools I attended an Asian kid said we (north americans smell revolting) said we tend to smell like butter, dairy, fat et....lovely! and honestly he was a nice kid...not racist or anything like that.

Edited May 4, 2005 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

We North Americans are a pretty glutinous lot, by and large. I remember a comedian making a point about the relation between the words "glue" and "glutinous".

Cheese... is there anything it can't do?

Apparently MSG and cheese are related, in terms of taste; they (you know, them) say that it accounts for the fifth taste - sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and MSG, or the savoury taste that comes from milk, cheese, and meat. Apparently people in East Asia got a jump on that and distilled MSG as an additive. Just gives me a headache, but maybe salt does the same thing to some people.

[Im going home Donny]

sorry sunshine...I like my meat waaaaaay to much!!!

and when I said vegetarian, i should have said vegan...you don't want to eat anything animal at all like cheese or eggs!

Basher might be the kid to speak with about this.

Actually I'd love to hear some advice about this from him.

One thing I'm curious about and have been is...are eggs really that bad for you? I have no moral problems with eating an organic, free range egg...at all...I mean I just can't see the problem as far as veggism goes...and it seems the tables are constantly turning on the health benifits...curious what Rubber's book says about eggs?

[MoMack]

d_rawk - you may be right in the harshness thing. My use of the term Quack was intentional, and I stand by it, although I may be wrong about naturopaths being regulated. (on second thought I don't think so)

My understanding of the medical world is that proper trained medical professionals are regulated by colleges found under the Regulated Health Professions Act

http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/English/91r18_e.htm#BK43

All the fancy hippy shit is not currently under this Act because they lack the proof/governance/training etc. etc. that goes along with regulation. And from a medical professional standpoint that would qualify them as Quacks. There is no College of Naturopathy, or College of Veganism etc. etc. I am not saying that these things have no use or value. I'm not saying that these people don't undergo extensive training. What I am saying is that they are not regulated, scientifically proven, or backed up by the government. To pull yourself out of the care of an MD because its going to be "pointless" in these circumstances if very serious and flawed advice in my opinion.

That was my point. (I think)

And for the record I'm not someone that goes to the doctor often - but to discount their utility with respect to putting your body through something like a cleanse in favour of new age medicine seems incredulous (and before you jump on me, again, I'm not discounting the holistic approach but rather arguing that the MD is still top dog)

[MoMack]

On a side note - anyone find it ironic that the community that is most health conscious on a personal level as to what we eat etc. etc. is also the least concerned when the sun goes down???

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Ya have to wonder at that! Compensation?

Oh the stuff we put in our bodies....

[SaggyBalls]

well i'm glad y'all are all healthy folks. i'm interested in doing a cleanse, but don't know how crazy i plan on going. i can easily do a juice fast, but it all boils down to me actually 'getting around' to it (me not being a lazy bastard and buckling down)

i think i'm more interested in being able to contend that 'my shit don't stink'.

cause i'm pretty sure it does...more literally than figuratively.

i just hope good ol' Boogieknight doesn't have too many problems plugging his shitter. just in case i'd suggest getting a snake drill bit.

I hope there's some good reading material for him to peruse in there.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

A cleanse does sound like a helluva trip. I think I'd want a couple of responsibility-free weeks for it, though, in anticipation of whatever might happen (geez, psychedelics only need you to to block off a couple of days at most).

[d_rawk]

Didn't intend to come off as jumping on you, but my hackles were raised as I do think Quack is an unnecessarily heavy word in this context. You stand by it, the word seems to have a different flavour for you than for I, I'll respect that.

The requirements for naturopathic doctors (ND) are well defined, recognized by the government of Canada and licenced in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

Gov Canada - HRDC - Professional Occupations in Health Diagnosing and Treating

The Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors refers to the profession as regulated in Ontario since 1925 under the Drugless Practitioners Act.

Certainly regulations, recognition and requirements vary from place to place. And you're right, they are not under the umbrella of the College of Physicians (thankfully, IMO, but I'll spare everyone that tirade).

The allopaths do very well with acute illnesses, and they are the only game in town for, say, surgery. But they have a terrible track record with chronic illnesses (of all sorts), for example. The MDs who have a reputation for any type of success in those circumstances are generally the ones who have integrated those "other" approaches into their practice. And scanning through PubMed or similar archives of published scientific, controlled, peer-reviewed research will often reveal a treasure trove of data backing those approaches up. Resistance from the College of Physicians is often not made on the basis of lack of scientific evidence, and in fact is often running contrary to it.

If I was having a heartattack, I'd want an MD around. If I wanted to prevent a heartattack, I'd want an ND around.

But I have my problems with many naturopaths too, and there are non-ND practictioners that fall completely outside the scope of any type of regulation or official recognition and that can be a minefield. And yes, there are charlatans, too.

I also agree with you that if someone is in generally good health, it would be wise to think twice (and consult those health authorities whose opinions you trust, and research research research) before jumping into something like a cleanse just because it seems like the "thing to do". Not meaning to be antagonistic, honest

[boogieknight]

i am in the middle of doing the wild rose herbal d-tox. i'm finding it a gentle and easy cleanse. no wheat, yeast, dairy or sugar for 12 days. take some herbal pills and drops 2x a day with food. you can get a little book that has some helpful recipes and info. pretty easy really. we're at day 8. it's really straight forward Didn't consult my doctor. really, i didn't even consider it. mainly because it didn't think there was any risks doing a cleanse and second because he wouldn't really think was worth doing. he thinks anything outside of the medical profession is a bunch of quackery.(bunch of unregulated weirdos)

it's funny, my doctor will give me enough pain killers to take out a small army but will think i'm a quack for trying a herbal cleanse.

[rubberdinghy]

curious what Rubber's book says about eggs?

Basically, the article said you should not eat anything that comes from an animal if you want to do this type of cleanse.

Honestly...if I want to clean out the ole bowels, I'll just head to McD's and clean them out of BIG MACS!

as for sugar...I went over a year without touching the stuff, the only type of sugar I would eat was fresh berries...I have been recently eating bad things like muffins and cake, and man alive, do I ever feel like shit after I eat that stuff now. Not to mention I have put on 25 pounds since January...I need to get my will power back!!!

Edited May 4, 2005 by Guest
dumbass

[Im going home Donny]

yo Dinghy I hear ya! I'm doing my best to get off my BridgeHead cookie addiction....not only does it make me feel like shit when I indulge....but its addictive....no sugar for a month=no cravings but have one sugar, laced cookie and the next day=cravings for sugar...kooky.Anyways feeling obsessive here.later. Wild Rose sounds pretty sensible and tame.

...I won't even go near the mcdeath can o worms...heehaw...

Edited May 4, 2005 by Guest

[Lazlo]

Sister the first thing you need is something fatty and sweet. You look malnourished, skeletal almost. Screw this no sugar and meat bullshit, quit worrying indulge and enjoy. Fuckin' hippies always cleansing, loving eachother and trying to save the world. Fuck.

[MoMack]

d-rawk - I stand corrected about ND's. (Damn "Other" category gets you every time

[Lazlo]

hippie

[Im going home Donny]

Just trying to focus on healthy, compassionate things. I'll never deny being a dirty hippy at heart...as much as I despise the term hippy.

Who cares what I look like. I never claimed to be a beaut anyways. ego/shmego I guess. I love how often I make a fool out of myself. Its all kinds of f*cking awesome.