Steve from Cleveland Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 I don't know if any of you have seen this or not... I had heard about it, and at first totally dismissed it as nonsense. After watching, I must say that I am shocked and appalled at some of the evidence they provide... Extremely scary stuff. This link will take you to it. It's in 2 parts that take about an hour total to watch. The only thing that is neglected by the documentarians is that they claim that commercial jets were NOT used, but then they don't explain WHAT HAPPENED to the passengers of the planes that were supposedly used... Or why the passengers of planes that were not used in the attacks were autopsied... Other than that, this shit is fucked up... Loose Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timouse Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 (edited) ...just starting part 2, and so far i'm finding it very interesting. the bit about the pentagon made me wonder a lot...there was a spoof site about the "pentalawn" a couple of years ago that made a big deal about the lawn being resistant to a 767 skidding across it & leaving no marks. the doc talked about hani hanjour, the pilot who flew into the pentagon, and how bad of a pilot he was. this same guy is alleged to have made a 330 degree turn at 550mph before nailing the ground floor of the pentagon.sounds a bit fishy when you think about it...edit to add...they talked about "secondary explosions" before the towers collapsed, possibly caused by bombs planted inside the building. the documentary claims that in the month before 911, power was cut for a day above the 48th floor to upgrade computer cabling. a power cut had never happenned in the history of the wtc, and this meant no security systems or video and lots of engineers going in & out. not to mention unnanounced "security drills & evacuations" in the weeks before 911. security for the wtc was provided by a company called securecom run by marvin bush (george's brother). this gets better & better... Edited September 28, 2005 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from Cleveland Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Agreed... I was also intereseted in the video footage of the towers collapsing... The 'secondary explosions' that were highlited, in particular... I wish I had taped some original footage on 9/11 that I could go back and examine myself. (Seems possible to do this through video editing)... Anyhow, it certainly raises some questions...With respect to the pentagon, my buddy watched with me (he was in the Navy) and when they were talking about the reinforcement of that section of the pentagon, etc... He commented that a cruise missle is about the only thing that would go through that, and then that's exactly what they propose... Hmmmm....Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooly Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 sounds crazy, will have to watch this when i get off work tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidy Mae Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yeah, I can't wait to see this. I still find it so unbelievable that I watched it all happen on live TV. So sad. Thanks for the link Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeker Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Great doc, makes a lot of sense much more than the offical account thats for sure. Too bad nothing will ever be done about it and those resposible will be long dead by the time the truth is accepted.Great site too, check out this video of NO cops looting a Wal-Mart, priceless.http://novakeo.com/?p=286 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from Cleveland Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 (edited) No problem... Originally I hesitated to post it, because of the "What do you think of Bush now" backlash sure to ensue. Then I thought, fuck it (plus I've gotten used to it by now). It's fuckin' crazy I gotta see what other people think. Not that I'm totally committed one way or the other. For as many questions at it asks, it leaves important ones unanswered, as well... But it does raise some interesting-as hell stuff that makes me wonder JUST how eager the admin was to find reason to go to war.Anyhow, look forward to the discussion that is sure to follow once ya'll've (is that neat or what, a double contraction) seen this... I had something else to say, but I forgot it... For now...SfC Edited September 28, 2005 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Seen this a couple weeks back on another site,it does raise some questions thats for sure but I was sorta put off by the fact they only seem interested in expressing their view on it and they do contradict themselves at times and claim certian things are completley impossible without giveing any factual information to back up their claims.Not that I think they are full of shit,I just feel they have done the same as Moore does,so like Moore's work I take it with a very small grain of salt.I sent this link to my brother,he's in the QRAF (British Airforce) and works on Hercs and fighter jets (I forget which offhand),gonna see what he thinks about the whole jet engine/not jet engine thing.Other links of interest: Missing Pentagon Jet Engine Identified? - A 727 JT8D This ones to the same site,but also host a number of related links at the bottom. South Tower Exit Wounds Tell 911 Tale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald guy in a blanket Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Hey.I haven't watched this yet but the talk of "secondary explosions" peaked my intrest.I watched a great doc called "the anatomy of a collapse" a couple of years ago on Discovery. It focused on the truss ceiling and floor set up in the WTC and how this truss was connected to the walls from the elevator shafts at the core of the building to make a strong floor area uninterupted by pillars. Fireman however, have a saying "don't trust the truss". When a truss-floored building is heated by fire the iron truss bends attempting to pull the outer wall closer. The wall doesn't budge so the massive iron gurter bursts off of the outside wall and falls into the floor below. With each guter lost the amount of weight the floor can hold gets less and less. On September 11th, when enough iron gurters bent and fell the entire weight of the top portion of the buildings fell 9-12 feet through the first floor that could no longer hold the building's weight. This 9-12 foot fall caused a chain reaction that immeadiately and systematically forced every iron gurter on the floor below that one to burst off of the outside wall of the building (they appeared from the outside as many tiny explosions). This was then followed almost instantly by the building peeling like a bannana.Does this match up with the "secondary explosions"? Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 "On September 11th, when enough iron gurters bent"I've tried to follow this for awhile, I recall that part of the argument about the gurters "bending" and snapping was that they were designed to withstand a far greater heat than the burning of the jet fuel from the planes could have created. The evidence for that claim is first testing, and second, actual experience. The only other high-rise steel gurter building to have a major fire like the WTC towers was a tower in chicago that burned for over 12 hours and no steel gurter ever broke or bent.I'm not trying to say it wasn't possible, I'm not an engineer, but that maybe that avenue of explanation might be stopped right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yeah Jef,that sounds about right,I think I also saw that particular show your talking about,but my buddy Brian is an iron worker & he mentioned basically the exact thing the day it happened since TWC was one of the examples used in his structural training part of his apprenticeship years back & the same structural plans are used on current buildings still.Coincidently (although not related really),on sept.11 I was attending the intermediate school part of my apprenticeship at Mohawk Colleges saltfleet campus (where electrical/Iron workers/plumbers train) & was watching TV in the smoking lounge after writing an electrical theory exam with about 60 other trades people watching this unfold,still blows my mind.Never forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from Cleveland Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Blad guy... Yeah, I'm familiar with that theory too. This documentary claims that is BS, on the grounds that have been aforementioned, and the slowed down footage of the collapse with what appears to be sequential explosions (on alternating sides of the building) about 5-10 floors BELOW the collapsed sections all the way to the ground... They're implying, of course, that this was a PLANNED demolition, similar to implosions of buildings that are being removed... Gotta watch it for yourself, really...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from Cleveland Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Great doc, makes a lot of sense much more than the offical account thats for sure. Too bad nothing will ever be done about it and those resposible will be long dead by the time the truth is accepted.Only thing still troubling me is this:One (very important) thing that is neglected by the documentarians is that they claim that commercial jets were NOT used, but then they don't explain WHAT HAPPENED to the passengers of the planes that were supposedly used... Or why the passengers of planes that were not used in the attacks were autopsied... Or who killed them all. I'm sure that their families would be interested in finding these things out...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancingbear Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 i think this documentary is full of it. they claim a lot, yet never really substancially back up anything they say. do i know who did it? i guess i'm inclined to believe the media on this one, but you never know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briguy Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Everything Phil claims in this documentary is backed up with quite a bit of evidence at http://letsroll911.org/ Lots of neat stuff to read in the Lets Roll Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timouse Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 after watching this doc last night, i've been turning it over in my head all day. the truly odd thing is that no matter how high-tech things have gotten, we're really no further ahead than all the people who pored endlessly over the jfk film footage trying to work out what really happenned to him. here we are 42 years later, and we still don't know who killed kennedy.lots of conspiracy theorists point to the kennedy as assassination as the beginning of the end, that the texans took over the white house the next day and have been pretty much in charge of things ever since...personally, if you look at the various US government agencies, their mandates, and how they apply them, it seems to get easier and easier to see myself in a tinfoil hat screaming about the end of days on a streetcorner somewhere. chomsky talks about "institutional analysis" as the key to understanding why things happpen the way they do. in simple terms, "follow the money." follow the connections between people and events, like the artist who did a huge canvas illustrating the links between various government and corporate pictures...it turned out like a great big fractal spiderweb with the bush family at the nexus of it. (the artist "committed suicide" not long after his picture was exhibited, and as far as i know no prints exist. there....another 911 myth??)nobody has any idea what really happenned on 911, and thew more information that enters the debate, the more muddied the view gets. there's a book by norman mailer called "harlot's ghost" about a fictitious CIA agent who rises to the top (george hw bush anyone??) and near the end of the book, characters are having a metaphysical discussion, and the CIA guy says that he figures that creation is true, and god planted the bones and such to throw humans off his trail and introduce an element of doubt into their collective psyche... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald guy in a blanket Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 (edited) Hey,I'm going to find time to watch.I'll write after.JefP.S.-timouse, I think you're right. We're back-analysing. We'll never really know. I just read a book called BLINK. It's fascinating. The premise is simply that our brains are incredibly good at assesing things instantly and not very good thorough analysis. It seems our brains are good at convincing ourselves that what we hope is right is actually right. The longer we look at something, the more possible any idea seems. It's an incredible book. Malcolm Gladwell is the author, I think, and he backs his work up with a massive amount of research. Edited September 29, 2005 by Guest i cant do things well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timouse Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 P.S.-timouse, I think you're right. We're back-analysing. We'll never really know. I just read a book called BLINK. It's fascinating. The premise is simply that our brains are incredibly good at assesing things instantly and not very good thorough analysis. It seems our brains are good at convincing ourselves that what we hope is right is actually right. The longer we look at something, the more possible any idea seems. It's an incredible book. Malcolm Gladwell is the author, I think, and he backs his work up with a massive amount of research. that's perfectly put i've had enough of trying to figure this out, and he simpsons is on now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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