Help me out here, folks

[TheGoodRev]

I'm writing a paper for my Modern Countercultures class about different ways to enact change in our culture. As part of the assignment, we are permitted to solicit others' opinions. I don't want to give away too much, but if anybody has time to post an opinion, I'd be much obliged. My question to you is...

Music has often been a vehicle used by artists to point out problems in our society and to attempt to enact social change. Examples include Bob Dylan, the MC5, Bob Marley, the Sex Pistols, Rage Against the Machine, etc. In your opinion, does music have the potential to bring about real and lasting social change, or is 'revolutionary' or 'countercultural' music simply the soundtrack chosen by people who are already of a counter-cultural mindset?

For those of you who consider yourselves Deadheads, or who ever actively participated in tour culture, I'd like you to think about whether specific bands or music ever changed the way you thought about your relationship to those around you; or perhaps the mutual appreciation for certain bands or music brought you together with people who were of a similar mindset; or perhaps that's all bullshit, and tour didn't do anything for you except fuck you up and show you a real good time? Please to discuss at length, and thank you all in advance.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I would perhaps consider looking into the blues, or artists such as James Brown, Curtis Mayfield, The Temptations, some of the ideas they promote in their music, could have affected some of the change that occurred during the civil rights movement...

[Lazlo]

You know, back in my day when I went to McMaster there was no such thing as class.

[TheGoodRev]

I would perhaps consider looking into the blues, or artists such as James Brown, Curtis Mayfield, The Temptations, some of the ideas they promote in their music, could have affected some of the change that occurred during the civil rights movement...

I appreciate your input, no2, but maybe I should rephrase. I understand that a lot of different music contains counter-cultural messages, and even musics that don't seem to inspire people to live differently. I feel like a lot of music may have inspired me to live differently, but I know that outside of my vast musical appreciation, I have a tendency to think counter-culturally anyway. I'm interested if anybody can identify whether music in and of itself has inspired them to live a different, "better" life, one that may be detached from the trappings of popular culture, or motivated to promote a change in the way we live.

You know, back in my day when I went to McMaster there was no such thing as class.

I'd like to enact some social change on your ass, punk.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

hmmmmm, well, if you are doing research on a personal level, I am not sure I can answer that question, but on a social level, if you consider the song "say it loud--i'm black and i'm proud" you could discuss how reflected social change--- the move from inferiority to equality--empowerment. sorry if I am on the wrong page--but that's all I got for now..

[FairySari]

I don't really know if I can answer the question for myself, but I can think of someone who was totally influenced by music.

This guy, one of the most politically active people I know. He told me that he was not into politics at all when he was younger. He got into skate boarding and started listening to propagandhi - it was their music and their lyrics that got him interested in and thinking about politics. And now he's doing crazy stuff like getting expelled from York for his protests.

[Blane]

sounds like you're asking a chicken-or-egg question here. Tough to say. Would the social makeup of jamaica be similar today had bob marley not been born for example. I'd be inclined to think taht those would be exceptional cases, with most of the seminal singers being voices of a generation that exists despite them.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

That's about the coolest essay topic - no, course title, even - I've yet heard of. Wish I could sit in on that one!

I've always been intrigued by the mass-gathering dimension of live shows. There was a great CBC documentary on evangelists Reinhart Bonnke and Benny Hinn and the techniques they used to "persuade" people - fading angelic voices in and out of the PA and specially placed speakers around the stadiums, taking advantage of dynamics of mass hypnosis, making public displays of "miracles" which were really just people pepped up on their own seratonin and adrenalin that they momentarily forget what crippling pain they're in, and so on. Circuit-riders in the 19th c. used to have manuals about these sorts of tricks they could consult when they staged their tent revivals. The documentary went on to link these sorts of events with the Nazi stadium shows at Nuremberg to show how an audience can be orchestrated to work like a big clock and carry that synergetic experience away with them.

Now, when you get something like a Dead show where a lot of the same formal dynamics are going on, I've always wondered where the essential difference lies. For me, what always worked and broke the spell was the sense that it always came with a little wink - yes, we're going to transform you (Mickey Hart was always big into that language), but please do notice all the little bells and whistles we use to do so, and understand that we're all in this thing together, there's no audience/band gap (*cough* except where money's concerned *cough*) - kind of like the sort of theatre that Brecht worked to bring off.

If you have that Who at Isle of Wight DVD, check out the part of the Townshend interview near the end where he talks about how they discovered they could affect their audience by working the setlist up to the final point where generic, "spiritualistic" lyrics (listening to you... etc.) - words that people could bring their own associations to and find meaning in - would lift the whole experience from a "fuckin' giv'er" (my words) sort of shindig into something more approximating a moment of worship.

[bradm]

there's no audience/band gap

I don't think that there's no gap, there is, but it's similar to the gap between, say, two different instruments. At a Dead (or Phish) show, it's not so much the band doing something for the audience, it's more the band and the audience create an experience together, and each has a different role (just as different instruments have different roles).

One thing I like about the Dead, Phish, and a lot of other similar bands is that the band seems to be enjoying what's going on as much as the audience is. I don't get that with a lot of other bands, who try to, I don't know, overwhelm the audience with their presence. I mean, Aerosmith (for example) may enjoy putting on the heavy show they put on, but it doesn't seem to me that they're enjoying (or are surprised by) the music as much as the Dead or Phish are (were). (That's nothing against Aerosmith or similar bands; it's just that they're in a different space from the Dead/Phish.)

Aloha,

Brad

[TheGoodRev]

That's about the coolest essay topic - no, course title, even - I've yet heard of. Wish I could sit in on that one!

Yeah man, this course is awesome. It's all part of my program, Cultural Studies & Critical Theory. I'll admit it gets depressing at times - I go to school every day and discuss how fucked up every facet of our society is, and from my current perspective (though I still have a ways to go before my degree) there seems to be no hope. All signs point towards moving to a hippie commune with some good folks like many of yourselves and making our own way in this world.

When you get past that, though, the courses offered within the program offer an incredibly illuminating view of contemporary Western culture and our place within it.

Thanks to all for your input, and if anybody else has anything to say, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm not looking for people to write my essay here, as I've already got a pretty good skeleton, I'm just looking for some concrete examples of people who can specifically identify that music inspired them to live differently, specifically somewhat outside of contemporary popular culture. I won't use anybody's real name (I don't know many of your real names anyway), but I will cite your message board handle and offer a link to this thread in the bibliography. Cheers!

[Lazlo]

You know, back in my day when I went to McMaster there was no such thing as class.

I'd like to enact some social change on your ass, punk.

I'm sure you would. MEOW.

I love it when you talk dirty.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Critical Theory? Does this include (as it must, so I ask rhetorically) Frankfurt School writers? I hope you've run across the book The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play by Ben Watson (St. Martin's Press, 1996), which is a reading of everything Zappa ever released through a Theodor Adorno lens. A bit a of a clunky read (he really does cover everything Zappa had ever released, and then does on the way Western Marxists tend to do), but well worth it. If you can't find a copy around, I'll be glad to mail you mine.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Guest