FIGHT ME (politics addition)!!!

[scottieking]

So I'm ready to join the wonderful world of multiforuming and I'm ready to fight you!

I'm a political junkie in a pissy mood looking to scrap it out on something.

I'll even throw the first punch.

I'm a leftie by nature (not nurture) but call me crazy, I think that Harper, or at least his handlers, played this China "incident" and the media coverage of it like a fine tuned viola and I loved every minute of it. Stephen Harper is portraying the best foreign image of a Prime Minister since Mulroney.

[AD]

[color:purple]um yeah, he's looking great.

[ollie]

I missed the China incident. Care to summarize or post a link?

[scottieking]

Hey, not many of us can pull off a traditional Vietnamese moo-moo.

Better than his look in Mexico (remember the vest?)

[scottieking]

PM WON'T ABANDON VALUES FOR TRADE WITH CHINA Nov15 Radio Canada International

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper says his government won't jettison its interest in the human rights issue for the sake of more trade with China. Mr. Harper says that while Canadians expect the government to promote trade, they also wish it to cling to Canadian values such as the beliefs in democracy and freedom. Earlier in the day, China walked away from a possible meeting between the prime minister and President Hu Jintao at the summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation forum in Vietnam, to which Mr. Harper was travelling on Wednesday. Mr. Harper says the Chinese had previously hinted at the possibility of a meeting, saying "we don't accept conditions," an apparent indication that the Chinese side had wanted to set the agenda. One likely subject would have been the fate of Huseyin Celil, a Chinese-Canadian serving a 15-year sentence for supposedly terrorism. The Chinese government was dismayed recently when Canada made the Dalai Lama an honorary citizen.

and then

Nov 19

PRIME MINISTER HAS 'VERY FRANK' TALKS WITH CHINA'S PRESIDENT

Prime Minister Stephen Harper had what he calls a 'very frank' talk on Sunday with China's president, Hu Jintao, in Hanoi. The two leaders met on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum. Mr. Harper discussed the case of Huseyin Celil, a Chinese-Canadian serving a lengthy prison term in China on terrorism charges. Mr. Celil was arrested in March in Uzbekistan and transported to China, where he was denied access to Canadian consular officials. China does not recognize Mr. Celil's Canadian citizenship. A lawyer for Mr. Celil's family in Canada, Chris MacLeod, said that Mr. Harper's comment was important because China would realize that Canada will not tolerate a disregard for international treaties and the abuse of Canadians abroad. Mr. Harper later admitted that China is not accustomed to hearing such frankness from Canada's government. His immediate predecessors, Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, were prone to discuss trade issues in public while discussing human rights issues in private. Since Mr. Harper won a minority government last January, he's been an outspoken critic of China's human rights record, saying that Canada will not sacrifice its values in exchange for more trade. Mr. Harper had also raised human rights and press freedom issues a few days earlier when he met Vietnam's prime minister. Canadian media were frustrated during Mr. Harper's trip to Asia because his entourage generally kept them at arm's length. News of his activities was often transmitted to them by Chinese, Vietnamese, South Korean and Australian agencies who were given greater access to Mr. Harper's events involving their country's officials.

[bradm]

You want to fight? OK, here goes: I think you meant this topic to be called "FIGHT ME (politics edition)!!!" rather than "addition", unless you meant this topic represented you making the addition of the politics forum to the fora you haunt.

Aloha,

Brad

Edited November 21, 2006 by Guest
Added "!!!". Neatness counts.

[Hux]

Scottie, just be patient, your opportunity for a good scrap will come sooner than later in here, just stay close....

Edited November 21, 2006 by Guest

[AD]

I missed the China incident. Care to summarize or post a link?

In summary, it was in Vietnam.

[The Chameleon]

Harper is the most embrassing PM I can think of in my life time. Evertime he opens his mouth a we loose face value.

In my humble opinion.

[Birdy]

let the good times roll!

whaddya mean by best foreign image of a PM since Mulroney?

best as in you agree with his and Mulroney's foreign policy,

or best as in everybody in between didn't even really have a foreign image?

for what it's worth, i like the way he handled the Chinese too. My problem with Harper is that he seems to pick and choose his battles.

edit to add: i do appreciate that he actually has a voice though!!

Edited November 21, 2006 by Guest

[scottieking]

BradM - Wordplay being your forte you got my pun right away.

Birdy - Technically the foreign policy we subscribe to is still the Liberal one, albeit only on the books and not in spirit.

Note I deftly said image and not policy. I think deep down he's a smug bastard, but image management is huge and his handlers are all over it.

[Birdy]

ok.. i agree!

no punches for you.

[ollie]

I'm all for calling China out on its human rights abuses, especially considering all the flak the USA gets around here. Go Steve!

[Hux]

Like Rob Barraco's keyboard playing, Harper lacks sophistication in his approach to relations with China.

"I am deeply concerned about the Harper government's approach to China and my concerns are shared by many in Canada's business and academic communities,"

- Thomas d'Aquino, president of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives

[The Chameleon]

Like Rob Barraco's keyboard playing, Harper lacks sophistication in his approach to relations with China.

"I am deeply concerned about the Harper government's approach to China and my concerns are shared by many in Canada's business and academic communities,"

- Thomas d'Aquino, president of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives

I rather have Rob Barraco as PM at this point.

[scottieking]

I'd compare it more to a Pig Pen rift - short, played hard, a little off time, but moving the jam in the right direction.

Fuck China. Honestly, they have to start respecting the people who stand up to them in the name of honour. They know they are full of shit and sooner or later, the other freedoms that come with a free market will have to be implimented. The peasant proletriat can only be restrained so long.

OK Stevie, next stop Russia for a one on one judo match with Mad Vlad. Harper will have to fight sumo if he doesn't lay off the parliamentary cheeseburgers though.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Guest

[Hux]

Hard to stand up to them when the bofoon PM can't even get a proper meeting.

Better to smile in public, then stick the knife in in private. Steve did it in reverse.

But hell, what does he have to learn from history.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Guest

[Hux]

.....the little bitch comes in here looking for a fight, I relent, and he runs off. Yeeeesh!

[scottieking]

Chinese Diplomacy is tricky business, or so the West Wing would have me believe.

I think the fact he got the meeting back says more about the situation than anything. If the Chinese didn't want to talk to him, they'd shut him out. Period. The fact that they did finally meet with him shows me that it worked, he got their attention.

Now all of this is no doubt completely stage managed. Throw me a little tough guy angle and I'll promise you 10% of the oil sands, 50 clubbed seals and Timmy's in Tianamen. Everyone's a winner and nothing continues to be done about the human rights abuses. But from an image standpoint, bravo.

[Booche]

.....the little bitch comes in here looking for a fight, I relent, and he runs off.

Or, he was away from the internets there tough guy. Its so good to know that we have someone working for the Liberal party that is able to see passed their own shoes. Thanks for everything you do Hux. You make our country better.

[ollie]

Well that's no good.

[Birdy]

he was away from the internets

'internets' made me spit my water out.. hahaha!

[Birdy]

oh.

[Hux]

Or, he was away from the internets there tough guy

He wasn't. Confirmed.

[scottieking]

Wow, I've got to post hourly in here lest the lords of the internet smite me. Dude, have you seen me lately? I am neither little or a bitch.

That aside, Megs, that is an insightful post considering the crux of this thread is the management of Harper's image.

"Prime Minister Stephen Harper's churlish rhubarb with the parliamentary press gallery went a few steps too far this past weekend when, on a trip to Hanoi, Harper allowed an utterly false reporting of the status of his meetings with Chinese leader Hu Jintao to remain on the public record for 14 hours."

Okay this is clearly an editoral and bias laden.

The falsehood appears to have emanated directly from Harper's entourage, which continued to tell reporters that the Harper-Hu meeting was off, even though the two men had, in fact, already met. It was only after the Chinese officials gave details of the meeting that the Prime Minister's aides owned up that, indeed, the two had met and discussed some key points of friction, including trade and human rights.

I believe this could be true. Do we have any proof?

This was not a question of going out of their way to correct reporters who had overstated what they did or did not know. This was failing to correct misinformation that had emanated from the Prime Minister's Office. This obfuscation of events unfolding at the APEC summit in Vietnam steps over the fine line between managing the government's communications strategy and deliberately allowing the public to be misled.

Jesus Christ, isn't that the sole purpose of the communications dept? See Scott Reid for details.